The few, the proud...

[ssracer]

Marines delay female fitness plan after half of recruits fail...can't do the three pull up minimum, so we have to make it easier...SMH

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/01 ... llup-test/

Since I'm not in the military and have never been in combat I generally try to stay out of the "women in the military" debate. But I will say that IMO if women are going to be in the same position as the men, expected to complete the same tasks in battle, then they sure as hell should have to meet the same physical standards as their male counterparts.

[Rem700]

Didnt they make a movie about this in the 90's.......G.I. Jane ring a bell lol. White boxes and help for obsticals? SMH. I agree with Racer. If your going to be in it expect to meet the same physical standards as then men. if you cant GTFO.

[Nolan]

always been a sore spot with me--standard should be the same for all making same pay, in same job, with same benefits, but that is my opinion.

[justang1997]

Women shouldn't be in the army or marines period. I would only allow women in non combat roles in the air force and navy. There are plenty of excellent female military veterans out there but it's been my experience that that is the exception and not the norm.

Again, just to clarify, I'm sure there are plenty of tough female soldiers and marines out there that can even run faster than me and do more pushups and even kick my ass, and out shoot me but that is the exception and not the norm.

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[Toddstang]

always been a sore spot with me--standard should be the same for all making same pay, in same job, with same benefits, but that is my opinion.

This.

[Toddinlou]

There's some crazy ass brutes that happen to be born female. If they want to serve and meet the same basic standards then so be it. Reasonable accommodations can be made but if you can't do a pull up then maybe combat isn't the best role for you

[Rem700]

If they are going to be in combat they should be eligible for selective setvice. Its BS a man can and will be diened federal services (student loans ) that are paid for by tax money and a woman cannot.

That is a very good point that i had never thought of before. Equal is equal right?

[son of liberty]

I doubt my wife could do as many pull ups as me, but I bet she could out run me. It a hard subject IMO, I mean we are saying that a system set up to make sure males are in shape , is the same system we use to make sure females are in shape. I dont know, I have never been a war fighter, but I would guess that its more about marksmanship , and ability to reason in a high pressure situation then it is about how many pull ups she can do. It would be interesting to see how many pull up some of the women that run the Iron man could do. I do know this, while not as physically strong , my wife works just as hard and gets just as much done as I do when we are say cutting fire wood, gardening, digging fence post. Historically from the Vikings , Russians , French resistance , women have provided much help in combat.
I think (Again not a war fighter) that physical test better mirroring what they actually do would be better suited to evaluating the ability of a given person to preform that task, not there ability to lift a heavy item above there head. Motivation and drive can often over come weaknesses in other areas. I have worked with women who I would have before men, and I have worked with men who were less help then princess, in every case it came down to there work ethic and drive more so then there physical strength.

Interesting anyway you look at it.

[WLJ]

The enemy will counter women solders with mouse firing catapults.

[Frailer]

I doubt my wife could do as many pull ups as me, but I bet she could out run me. It a hard subject IMO, I mean we are saying that a system set up to make sure males are in shape , is the same system we use to make sure females are in shape. I dont know, I have never been a war fighter, but I would guess that its more about marksmanship , and ability to reason in a high pressure situation then it is about how many pull ups she can do. It would be interesting to see how many pull up some of the women that run the Iron man could do. I do know this, while not as physically strong , my wife works just as hard and gets just as much done as I do when we are say cutting fire wood, gardening, digging fence post. Historically from the Vikings , Russians , French resistance , women have provided much help in combat.
I think (Again not a war fighter) that physical test better mirroring what they actually do would be better suited to evaluating the ability of a given person to preform that task, not there ability to lift a heavy item above there head. Motivation and drive can often over come weaknesses in other areas. I have worked with women who I would have before men, and I have worked with men who were less help then princess, in every case it came down to there work ethic and drive more so then there physical strength.

Interesting anyway you look at it.

Good post. The challenge has always been what constitutes "combat fitness." None of the services' fitness tests do a good job of assessing suitability for a particular job. Ideally, the PT test would be different for an admin clerk than for a cannon crewman...but it isn't. As such, we take a rough measure of overall fitness, normalized for age and gender.

Standards *should* be the same for everyone in a particular job, but we're not smart enough to figure out how to do that.

I'll go on record--as a former infantryman--that I don't think women belong in combat specialties, but my opinion is based more on the inability of men to deal with it than it is on the shortcomings of the female gender.

As an aside, one of the best soldiers who ever worked for me was a female. I fought (and won) to get her assigned as our cav squadron's intel officer (in violation of the law) during an OIF deployment because it was the right thing to do, as there was no doubt she was the best qualified candidate. Unfortunately, she was murdered in Afghanistan by an ANA traitor a few months ago.