Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquar

[richief]

Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

Seems like the feds are trying to keep this quiet! I wonder why

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/o ... e-compound

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... 7M0mG6HUyk

[guncrank1]

Uhmm

[WLJ]

The kindergarten level comments from both sides make my head hurt.

[CCRBUM]

I'm so confused

[jmeister]

here's some light reading on the Hammond background & case, note the source FWIW
http://bundyranch.blogspot.com/2015/11/ ... -case.html

[jackalo626]

I'm so confused

I am a little. I get the gist, but a bit of it is muddy. I read the whole Damn thing and know of the bundy situation but can someone simplify the new situation here?

[Wyldman]

With the .gov involved, there is nothing simple involved, here.

[jackalo626]

With the .gov involved, there is nothing simple involved, here.

So you don't get it either?

[Wyldman]

Nope.

[jackalo626]

Nope.

Haha nice.

[baknblack]

I'm thinking maybe the ranchers did a controlled burn on some government land they used to run cattle. Government charges them with poaching. Convicts them, jail time. Even though the ranchers were willing to go to jail bundy's sons organized an armed resistance to protest.

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[BIGC]

From what I have read so far (a lot of it in the comments) is that the ranchers started a controlled burn on their property but it got out of their control and spread to BLM land and that after they put it out they were charged with setting fire to the BLM land.

The outcry from the militia seems to be not from the ranchers being charged but that a judge let them out of jail with time served and then another judge stepped in and issued an order for them to serve more of the time they were given....

All confusing as fuck but I am trying to keep up with it as best I can....

[richief]

I'm so confused

I am a little. I get the gist, but a bit of it is muddy. I read the whole Damn thing and know of the bundy situation but can someone simplify the new situation here?

I think the fact that the hammonds allready served time for thier fires, and are now being reimprisoned as domestic terrorists, has sparked this protest. Rightly so, I am hoping for the best for them as they are way out on a limb.

FOR IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE:
CLIVEN D. BUNDY
PO Box 7175
Bunkerville, NV 89007
702-346-5564
January 1, 2016
With great concern and love and much consideration from prayer, I come to you Harney County Sheriff of Oregon David M. Ward, rancher Steven Dwight Hammond, and rancher Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr.,
I, Cliven D. Bundy, have been involved for several weeks in the background striving to understand and comprehend your dilemmas in Harney County, Oregon. I understand that the grass that was burnt on each side of the fence was grazing rights that had been created through beneficial use, one side of the fence being private property and the other side of the fence being private property rights. The fires that were set were for a good purpose and had good results.
The United States Justice Department has NO jurisdiction or authority within the State of Oregon, County of Harney over this type of ranch management. These lands are not under U.S. treaties or commerce, they are not article 4 territories, and Congress does not have unlimited power. These lands have been admitted into statehood and are part of the great State of Oregon and the citizens of Harney County enjoy the fullness of the protections of the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Constitution limits United States government.
It is my suggestion, Steven Hammond, that you go and check yourself into Harney County jail asking for protective custody. It is my suggestion, Dwight Hammond, that you go and check yourself into Harney County jail asking for protective custody. It is my suggestion, Harney County Sheriff David Ward, accept these two ranchers into your jail, notify the United States Solicitor in Washington DC that you have these two ranchers in Harney County jail, that they will remain there indefinitely under your protective custody and the protection of We the People of Harney County and We the People of the United States of America.
I suggest an Evidentiary Hearing or a Grand Jury be formed by We the People.
I feel that this action is immediately important, that it should be taken place before 10:00 am Saturday, January 2, 2016. I will hold these suggestions private until that time then I will release this letter to those having state and county jurisdiction and to the media.
Cliven D. Bundy


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B3JqIceKh ... wzIaPJgJdw

[CCRBUM]

so they were jailed, released and then put back in jail?

[richief]

They paid restitution and served time, but it seems thier is statute of five yrs minimum for the charges they plead to, the prior agreement be damned. Also their are men in their 20's being charged with terrorism because of management burning that got out of control. The protesters feel the Federal government is using antiterrorism laws heavy handedly and out of context for the indiscretions commited by farmers, and out of federal jurisdiction.
The Hammonds themselves have folded and are turning themselves in on time for serving sentences, however they were threatened with less desirable prison facilities than a fed correction center, also they can't raise money over $500 by selling any property they own without federal permission, and are threatened with further charges if they even talk to certain individuals like bundys or other citizen protesters.
Kinda heavy handed if you ask me.

[CCRBUM]

Well from what I've read its a matter of two sides with two stories... but the fact of the matter is the ones serving the sentence are NOT protesting it but are complying. I am fully supportive of fighting it in a legal process that is peaceful but (and I'm sure this is going to piss people off) the bundys getting in the middle of it and escalating this situation is not different to me than the whole mess in Ferguson... is it peaceful so far? sure... for now... but they went in there with a group of guys highly agitated looking for a fight.. how is that going to look good for the gun rights community? how will that look good for the ranchers in the area? It will all get lost in the Hostile take over of government property and will be labeled as a terrorist act. This will only fuel the fire of the liberal media and government.

[jackalo626]

Well from what I've read its a matter of two sides with two stories... but the fact of the matter is the ones serving the sentence are NOT protesting it but are complying. I am fully supportive of fighting it in a legal process that is peaceful but (and I'm sure this is going to piss people off) the bundys getting in the middle of it and escalating this situation is not different to me than the whole mess in Ferguson... is it peaceful so far? sure... for now... but they went in there with a group of guys highly agitated looking for a fight.. how is that going to look good for the gun rights community? how will that look good for the ranchers in the area? It will all get lost in the Hostile take over of government property and will be labeled as a terrorist act. This will only fuel the fire of the liberal media and government.

It won't make gun owners look like anything as they don't represent me. Hell they could have driven a Chevy there but it doesn't make Chevy owners look a certain way. If they are fighting for a just reason then I can't blame them as principal is what matters and not laying down if you know you are right.

[richief]

Well some are saying a group of Heavily Armed, Radical, Right Wing, Extremists took over a Federal Building.
I myself think that this group has taken over a Federal Building Because fellow Farmers are being Charged, Convicted, and Sentenced as Radical, Right Wing, Extremists.

[CCRBUM]

and the protesters in Ferguson were misunderstood frustrated minorities being oppressed by the white man.... This is a smart way and a not smart way to go about things. Should peole stand up for what is right? absolutely! But for it to have weight behind it I think it should be done using common since... do they represent gun owners? weather we like it or not.. yes. why? because they will be portrayed as gun owners. It's to tense of a time in this county to act in this manner. Call, write, march but take over a building in a hostile manner? I personally think its a very foolish move. There is too much behind this that remains out of sight (evidence, court room documents, reasons for why the sentence was upgraded...) for anyone other than those involved to determine that its time to act like this. People want to act foolishly because they are angry or frustrated. It's called a knee jerk reaction. But if people started thinking through stuff and looking at what can be done as a whole and present stuff with a level of intelligence rather than throw gasoline on a fire, we might see progress in the right direction.

[baknblack]

Well, taking over the building unarmed might of been a better option but, these heavy handed actions against the ranchers out west have been going on for years. Very seldom does it make the news.
One thing for sure. This made the news.

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[Toddstang]

Gun owners get a bad rap regardless.
This is fuel for the fire for the anti's.

[jackalo626]

Gun owners get a bad rap regardless.
This is fuel for the fire for the anti's.

They don't need fuel and we will always be the opposition and I will not let them tie this to me because I own guns. It is a ridiculous stretch and even remotely trying to tie all gun owners to this is preposterous and you shouldn't let others define or label you.

[jackalo626]

Well some are saying a group of Heavily Armed, Radical, Right Wing, Extremists took over a Federal Building.
I myself think that this group has taken over a Federal Building Because fellow Farmers are being Charged, Convicted, and Sentenced as Radical, Right Wing, Extremists.

The first wording creates a bias and gets ratings so yeah of course they used that name. It could be true for all I know but they don't know either and for that they aren't very good reporters.

[jackalo626]

and the protesters in Ferguson were misunderstood frustrated minorities being oppressed by the white man.... This is a smart way and a not smart way to go about things. Should peole stand up for what is right? absolutely! But for it to have weight behind it I think it should be done using common since... do they represent gun owners? weather we like it or not.. yes. why? because they will be portrayed as gun owners. It's to tense of a time in this county to act in this manner. Call, write, march but take over a building in a hostile manner? I personally think its a very foolish move. There is too much behind this that remains out of sight (evidence, court room documents, reasons for why the sentence was upgraded...) for anyone other than those involved to determine that its time to act like this. People want to act foolishly because they are angry or frustrated. It's called a knee jerk reaction. But if people started thinking through stuff and looking at what can be done as a whole and present stuff with a level of intelligence rather than throw gasoline on a fire, we might see progress in the right direction.

I didn't say I was for them or it was right, I said I don't know but if someone is fighting for what's right then I commend them. Don't even use the word protestor for those violent looting thugs that could give a shit less what cops did to some criminal with a long rap sheet for being a "good boy turning his life around". Besides you are tying two different things together and I want to be clear I am speaking of a mindset and not this case that I have stated in this thread I didn't understand.

Fighting for what is legally right and directing it towards the people responsible whether it is popular or not I agree with.

Fighting the public and targeting another entire race while smashing buildings to loot and burn stores because a police officer shot a criminal you didn't know or have facts on isn't the right way and I disagree with it. That title of terrorism is pretty appropriate towards them.

[richief]

I have no doubt these protesters have a legitamate gripe. Should they have went this road? I dunno.
I mean burning is a management tool for grazing land, it can be a risky tool, and whoever does it is liable for any damages they inflict.
Should they be charged and convicted of Terrorism?
How long before a whole segment of the population are called right wing extremists, and labeled possible domestic terrorists because they publicly oppose gun prohibition, or abortion, or something else.