Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

This sub forum will have the weekly bushcraft challenge, an idea brought to KAC by Son of Liberty.
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Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by Kadnine » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:44 am

The fire set (oftentimes called the "fire lay" is how you arrange yer tinder, kindling and firwwood logs to from a cooking or camping fire and there are many ways to do it. fromkentucky was kind enough to come over to the house on Sunday and lend a hand to demonstrate three sets:

The Tee-Pee arrangement is good for windy conditions. Arrange yer kindling into a cone shape, with tinder undeneath, and firewood logs on the outside.
IMG_20130630_131959.jpg
The Top-down, or upside-down fire has the advandtage of "set and forget" in that you place logs on the bottom (much like a Jenga game pattern,) pace yer kindling and tinder on top, light and watch it burn down into a bed of coals. Not the best setup for windy conditions, tho.
IMG_20130630_132137.jpg
The "Bridge" is good for when you have whole logs, even damp whole logs, no way to split them, and lots of dry kindling. Drive two sticks into the ground and "bridge" yer log between them. tinder and kindling goes underneath, fed with fuel unto the heat dries out and eventually ignites the log. (This is probably the most advanced set of these three.
IMG_20130630_132314.jpg
Thanks again to fromkentucky for his help on Sunday. Have fun practicing these sets, or feel free to add your own favorite set below!

- Keith
~~~

"'...what it is to be a bondservant thou knowest full well, but of freedom thou hast never yet made trial, to know whether it be a sweet thing or not. For if ever thou hadst experience thereof, thou wouldest counsel us to fight for it not with spears only but with axes.' Thus the Spartans answered Hydarnes." - Herodotus

~~~

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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by Rem700 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:54 am

I have always used the teepee method. I recently tried a very similar version of the top-down fire method and it works great. I did not have to do anything until it started burning way down. Granted most of mine are done in a cast iron fire pit in my back yard, but the point is it works! Also for large camp fires (typically in the colder months) i have always used a modified teepee fire. I place a very large log vertically in the center and teepee tinder and kindling around it. Once the firs is going it facilitates keeping the teepee shape throughout the life of the fire and it aslo creastes a wall of hot coals that projects out from the center log providing very adequate heat for those cold nights.

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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by fromkentucky » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:54 pm

Kadnine wrote:Thanks again to fromkentucky for his help on Sunday.
Absolutely man, it was a lot of fun! Also, check your pms, there's a few more pictures in there.
Rem700 wrote: I recently tried a very similar version of the top-down fire method and it works great. I did not have to do anything until it started burning way down.
The only real downside to a Top Down is that the tinder and kindling are quite vulnerable to wind. With that in mind, I recently did a mix between a Log cabin and a Top Down, similar to the Top Down shown above, but with the kindling and tinder bundle atop a 2x6 plank and another two layers of quartered logs above it. The plank actually kept the bottom 3 layers of logs from igniting for a couple hours, while the top layers of logs protected the tinder and kindling from the wind as they got going. This setup allowed a very large fire lay to burn as a small/medium-sized fire for several hours, maintenance-free. When it was done I had a BIG pile of coals on the bottom that stayed warm all night.
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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by fromkentucky » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:58 pm

I really want to try a Dakota Fire Hole sometime.
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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by Rem700 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:27 pm

fromkentucky wrote:I really want to try a Dakota Fire Hole sometime.
Explaination? Never heard of it

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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by Kadnine » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:18 pm

Rem700 wrote:I have always used the teepee method. I recently tried a very similar version of the top-down fire method and it works great. I did not have to do anything until it started burning way down. Granted most of mine are done in a cast iron fire pit in my back yard, but the point is it works! Also for large camp fires (typically in the colder months) i have always used a modified teepee fire. I place a very large log vertically in the center and teepee tinder and kindling around it. Once the firs is going it facilitates keeping the teepee shape throughout the life of the fire and it aslo creastes a wall of hot coals that projects out from the center log providing very adequate heat for those cold nights.
I've seen the center log set done before, would also rank it as "more advanced than a simple teepee," but you're absolutely correct the effect is long lasting, all night camp fire heat. Just never tried to light one myself.

- K
~~~

"'...what it is to be a bondservant thou knowest full well, but of freedom thou hast never yet made trial, to know whether it be a sweet thing or not. For if ever thou hadst experience thereof, thou wouldest counsel us to fight for it not with spears only but with axes.' Thus the Spartans answered Hydarnes." - Herodotus

~~~

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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by Kadnine » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:26 pm

fromkentucky has some nice pictures of our fire sets at i.mgur, including this one of our "Bridge Set" burning. We placed a coupla of extra logs on either side to guard against the wind. The rest are here.

Image

Thanks again, fromkentucky.

- K
~~~

"'...what it is to be a bondservant thou knowest full well, but of freedom thou hast never yet made trial, to know whether it be a sweet thing or not. For if ever thou hadst experience thereof, thou wouldest counsel us to fight for it not with spears only but with axes.' Thus the Spartans answered Hydarnes." - Herodotus

~~~

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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by fromkentucky » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:12 pm

Rem700 wrote:
fromkentucky wrote:I really want to try a Dakota Fire Hole sometime.
Explaination? Never heard of it
Like a Rocket Stove in the dirt:

Image

The insulation from the dirt allows it to burn significantly hotter and with less ash or smoke. If you lay a camp grill or just some green sticks over top, you have a great cooking setup. You can also build a log-cabin or teepee lay over top and it'll light them. Plus, when you're done, you just fill in the hole, making it a "low-impact" fire.

Here's a good Video.

You're supposed to put the inlet hole upwind to take advantage of the natural draft, and I've also seen some people put the dirt pile in between the two openings.
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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by fromkentucky » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:34 pm

Moisture in the ground can be a problem for getting these setups to take off, but I suspect that lining it heavily with rocks may alleviate that. It's a good setup if you don't have much fuel and need the most efficiency and heat from your kindling.
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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by Kadnine » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:37 am

Never heard of it called a "Dakota Fire Hole" before. But something similar was mentioned in cub scouting when I was boy. Interesting, but I've never tried it. If memory serves.... (and my memory is iffy at best) we called it a "Rabbit Hutch Fire" or a "Gopher Hole Fire."

The trick was to take advantage of a natural air pipe beginning downhill formed by a burrowing animal, and light a small, smokey greenwood fire at the bottom end, taking advantage of the natural updraft to smoke out small game at the top end, then build a cooking fire at the top end to cook it for dinner!

That's the theory, anyway, tho again, I've never tried it.

- K
~~~

"'...what it is to be a bondservant thou knowest full well, but of freedom thou hast never yet made trial, to know whether it be a sweet thing or not. For if ever thou hadst experience thereof, thou wouldest counsel us to fight for it not with spears only but with axes.' Thus the Spartans answered Hydarnes." - Herodotus

~~~

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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by Rem700 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:28 am

Very cool. Thanks for the explanation fromky!

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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by Kadnine » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:58 am

RE "Dakota Fire Hole"

One warning....

And something that wasn't mentioned in the helpful vid from above. Dowse the fire thoroughly with water before burying it over. There are some areas of the country with real problems with wild fires springing up after smoldering coal or peat underground, sometimes for years!

Some news links and PSAs:

Deep Underground, Miles of Hidden Wildfires Rage
A surprising number of us live close to them. According to a review by the Department of Interior's Office of Surface Mining Enforcement and Reclamation, more than 100 fires are burning beneath nine states, most of them in Colorado, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Utah and West Virginia. But geologists say many fires go unreported, driving the actual number of them closer to 200 across 21 states. Most have burned for years, if not decades.
Centralia, Pennsylvania
Great Dismal Swamp Peat Fire
~~~

"'...what it is to be a bondservant thou knowest full well, but of freedom thou hast never yet made trial, to know whether it be a sweet thing or not. For if ever thou hadst experience thereof, thou wouldest counsel us to fight for it not with spears only but with axes.' Thus the Spartans answered Hydarnes." - Herodotus

~~~

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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by Rem700 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:34 am

Kadnine wrote:RE "Dakota Fire Hole"

One warning....

And something that wasn't mentioned in the helpful vid from above. Dowse the fire thoroughly with water before burying it over. There are some areas of the country with real problems with wild fires springing up after smoldering coal or peat underground, sometimes for years!

Some news links and PSAs:

Deep Underground, Miles of Hidden Wildfires Rage
A surprising number of us live close to them. According to a review by the Department of Interior's Office of Surface Mining Enforcement and Reclamation, more than 100 fires are burning beneath nine states, most of them in Colorado, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Utah and West Virginia. But geologists say many fires go unreported, driving the actual number of them closer to 200 across 21 states. Most have burned for years, if not decades.
Centralia, Pennsylvania
Great Dismal Swamp Peat Fire
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by Kadnine » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:05 pm

Rem700 wrote:
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Was MY exact reaction when I first learned about Centralia, PA!

Spooky stuff, huh? Kinda throws those old Smokey the Bear PSAs into sharp relief, don't it? Don't know why the gov can't get anything right, not even the "Only You Can Prevent Forest Fires" campaign from when we were all kids. Whole towns are disaster areas for the next hundred years... AND almost nobody I know has even heard about them!

Stay safe out there. And pass it along.

- K
~~~

"'...what it is to be a bondservant thou knowest full well, but of freedom thou hast never yet made trial, to know whether it be a sweet thing or not. For if ever thou hadst experience thereof, thou wouldest counsel us to fight for it not with spears only but with axes.' Thus the Spartans answered Hydarnes." - Herodotus

~~~

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Re: Bushcraft Challenge - The Fire Set

Post by fromkentucky » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:31 pm

Kadnine wrote:Dowse the fire thoroughly with water before burying it over.
Yes, absolutely. Always douse the fire. The hybrid log/top-down fire I built took two full buckets of water to douse the coals.
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-U.S. District Judge Benson Everett Legg

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