School me on AR pistols

Post by **PDM** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:26 pm

Dad and I are thinking about building a couple of 223 pistols for HD guns since prices are good right now.

I see everything from 7-11.5" barrels. What gives good reliability, accuracy, and velocity? Not likely to be suppressed any time soon.

Is a carbine length system less finicky than pistol?

I understand most of the legal aspects. How are assembled lowers sold if they come with a m4 stock? Are they sold as a rifle, or can they be used for a pistol (obviously changing the buffer tube and stock)?

Post by **Dustin** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:45 pm

I think if they come with a stock they are rifle. The real question is what are they marked on the 4473.

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Post by **Dustin** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:48 pm

I have had no problem with pistol length gas system. No opening the port or anything.

I like 7.5 barrel over just a choice the weight is better.

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Post by **PDM** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:09 pm

Post by **bigelowe** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:22 pm

I just built my own 5.56/223 pistol. I went with a 10.3 Hansen profile barrel from Ballistic advantage. 10.5 - 11.5 seemed to be the most reliable and popular from my research. Had a stripped lower in the safe, bought a kak blade stock and buffer tube along with an ALG 10" rail. Still waiting to get to the range and try it out.

Post by **Niceguy** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:52 pm

I've had 2 10.5" PSA uppers and they both functioned perfect. INSANELY loud... Great shooting and accurate.

Post by **PDM** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:16 pm

That's funny. I'm thinking either PSA upper or a Ballistic Advantage and ALG rail. Looks like 10.5 is the perfect compromise length for performance

Post by **PDM** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:17 pm

The PSA assembled lowers are a good deal right now. Need to find out if I can get one as a pistol, but I bet Dustin is right

Post by **Marcus** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:22 pm

PDM wrote:The PSA assembled lowers are a good deal right now. Need to find out if I can get one as a pistol, but I bet Dustin is right

It isn't that big of a deal to mark it as 'other' is it?

Post by **PDM** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:23 pm

That's my question. Can it be?

Post by **PDM** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:24 pm

Maybe I just call PSA. Lol

Post by **iron369** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:46 pm

If I'm not mistaken, a pistol can become a rifle but a lower that is built as a rifle can never be changed to a pistol lower. Most lower receivers are not marked. Some specifically say pistol lower receiver for states that need it identified as such. Best course of action is to buy a stripped lower and build it as a pistol. Only with a pistol lower can you possess an upper with a barrel less than 16". Then, after a stamp is approved, sbr it. DO NOT Convert an existing rifle lower to a pistol.

Post by **Wyldman** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:46 pm

If it comes with a stock, it's a rifle. Do yourself a favor and get a stripped lower marked either pistol, multi, or other.

Crush, kill, mangle, maim, destroy.

richief · Post by **richief** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:20 pm

Yep, avoid buying a short barreled upper till you have an other lower. Also in case you don't know yet, a vertical forward grip is a no go on a pistol.
Trying to think of any other snares, will post up if I do.

Post by **PDM** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:38 pm

Thanks all

Doubt I'll use one, but VFG only makes it AOW if it's under 26"

Post by **guncrank1** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:40 am

The info on complete lowers is completely wrong

It is a firearm- neither a handgun or a long gun

Does not matter if it has a stock or not.

Post by **guncrank1** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:50 am

iron369 wrote:If I'm not mistaken, a pistol can become a rifle but a lower that is built as a rifle can never be changed to a pistol lower. Most lower receivers are not marked. Some specifically say pistol lower receiver for states that need it identified as such. Best course of action is to buy a stripped lower and build it as a pistol. Only with a pistol lower can you possess an upper with a barrel less than 16". Then, after a stamp is approved, sbr it. DO NOT Convert an existing rifle lower to a pistol.

Correct ,rifle is rifle always
Pistol to rifle and rifle to pistol

A lower is a firearm, with or without a stock or guts

Correct , a rifle to pistol is a illegal SBR.

Post by **guncrank1** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:55 am

richief wrote:Yep, avoid buying a short barreled upper till you have an other lower. Also in case you don't know yet, a vertical forward grip is a no go on a pistol.
Trying to think of any other snares, will post up if I do.

Again not exactly correct, a rifle with a extra upper with a less than 16 barrel is not neccerarly bad. The almighty " intent rule" would apply with the Feds.

A VFG on a handgun makes it a AOW which can be legally made by a 07 and formed 3 or by a private citizen 200.00 and a form 1.

But if pistol has a OAL equal or greater than 26 inch a , VFG is legal as the pistol would not be a AOW with the VFG attached.

Post by **PDM** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:22 am

Thanks CW

Is "easily concealed" the difference between handgun and pistol? Is that just defined by the 26" length?

Rhyatt · Post by **Rhyatt** » Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:04 pm

guncrank1 wrote:The info on complete lowers is completely wrong

It is a firearm- neither a handgun or a long gun

Does not matter if it has a stock or not.

That has been my experience.

For all of the lowers I have bought over the years the form 4473 had them listed as a firearm or other. Regardless of the furniture. A receiver can become anything so that is how they classify it. That is why you can't buy one out of state without transferring to an FFL, unlike a long gun, even if they mark it as a rifle on the 4473 (which they shouldn't). I have lived most of my life in border towns and the handgun/receiver thing becomes quite the pain when you find something in the next state but don't want to hassle with shipping and transfer fees, which often make a good deal just an 'ok' deal.

Kentucky Armory Club