Forged vs billit lowers

[guncrank1]

There is a difference in tensile strength between forged and billet. Under catastrophic failure billet will bulge whereas forged will splinter and produce more shrapnel.

Disscussion?
Saw this on FB

[ssracer]

Interesting. I had kinda just assumed that the biggest draw to billet was the unlimited amount of custom looks you could mill into it since you aren't limited to what you have to start with from the original forging. With billet as long as the critical inner and outer dimensions are milled correctly, you can do whatever you want with the look of the rest of it.

[DDgunslinger]

Hmm... interesting, I'd like to see how this was tested and this conclusion was made.

[Wyldman]

I doubt if any actual testing was involved, just someone assuming that forged would be more brittle, hence the shrapnel statement.

Crush, kill, mangle, maim, destroy.

[WLJ]

Just someone trying to justify why he paid more.

[DDgunslinger]

Kinda my point if no testing was done, then no evidence was gathered to support there conclusion, therefore their conclusion is unfounded and invalid.

[WLJ]

Did he even bother to produce photos where a forged lower splintered that wasn't made by Hessse/Vulcan/Blackthorne? Considing how many blown ARs there have been there should be plenty if he was right.

[guncrank1]

I am not a metalergy expert, but I have machined material from plastic to all types of metals.
I have repaired, altered and modified ARs from machine guns to SBRs , both forged and billet and I have seen pictures of kabooms and all types of malfunctions.
And to me the difference between forged and billet is zero in terms of function.

[PDM]

The failure modes described are true, but he is misunderstanding them. Forged aluminum will crack with less deformation than T6, but it will not shatter like glass. They both look the same when they break. T6 just bends a little more before it breaks, but it will break with less pressure. The forged (a billet is also forged) is stronger and will fail at a higher pressure. It really doesn't take much to bend T6. In a rifle application, it really doesn't matter. If a 223 round gets a double charge of powder, the gun will grenade. Period. If the rifle is dropped out of a helicopter, the forged will hold up better provided that the rest of the gun is still usable.

[Wyldman]

The above type of empirical evidence is far more credible in my book.

Crush, kill, mangle, maim, destroy.

[guncrank1]

The failure modes described are true, but he is misunderstanding them. Forged aluminum will crack with less deformation than T6, but it will not shatter like glass. They both look the same when they break. T6 just bends a little more before it breaks, but it will break with less pressure. The forged (a billet is also forged) is stronger and will fail at a higher pressure. It really doesn't take much to bend T6. In a rifle application, it really doesn't matter. If a 223 round gets a double charge of powder, the gun will grenade. Period. If the rifle is dropped out of a helicopter, the forged will hold up better provided that the rest of the gun is still usable.

Billet are not forged , machined from a block of aluminum.

[PDM]

Yeah, that was just a play on semantics. It is all forged one way or another. Forged and billet are such generic terms, they don't really define anything about the material

[guncrank1]

Yeah, that was just a play on semantics. It is all forged one way or another. Forged and billet are such generic terms, they don't really define anything about the material

Also the lower has not much pressure , but the upper takes the kaboom

[Toddstang]

Don't drop your gun. Problem solved.

I'm going to start charging for my expertise.

[guncrank1]

Don't drop your gun. Problem solved.

I'm going to start charging for my expertise.

Pretty cheap prices then

[justang1997]

http://www.westernshooter.com/2012/02/s ... eview.html

[guncrank1]

http://www.westernshooter.com/2012/02/s ... eview.html

OK . Sounds like a shill review for Sun Devil
All I know is National Match rifles must conform to spec so the upper and lowers are standard form forged items, or if billet are machined to miltary specs-and those rifles shot as well as any other.
Now there may be billet uppers and lowers used but the dozen or so National Match rifles I have examined on the firing line have had forged upper/ lowers.

I will say again that it makes zero difference in term of functional accuracy / preformance what the lower and upper are made -be it machined from a block or forged to shape and then machined.

Barrel tolerance concentric chamber to bore , Good finish on rifling style, constant ID of bore, good muzzle crown etc

The tightness of bolt to upper , the lock up timing, feed ramp design, barrel flange to upper barrel seat true, tightness of componts etc

Sights- appropriate to mission optics tightly mounted and not going to self destruct.

Fine trigger either store bought or honed.

Maybe a few other things , etc

[Mexican Kerry]

Quit reading after "Saw this on FB"

[kokopelli]

Because soooooo many AR's have been exploding ...

[WLJ]

Because soooooo many AR's have been exploding ...

According to one of the salesmen at Kygunco, yep, he not shy about telling you why he won't own an AR is because they keep exploding. He told me he's had something like 5 (I think that was the number he gave) of them explode on him. Now if true, which I highly doubt, it makes you wonder WTF could he be doing.

[jackalo626]

Because soooooo many AR's have been exploding ...

According to one of the salesmen at Kygunco, yep, he not shy about telling you why he won't own an AR is because they keep exploding. He told me he's had something like 5 (I think that was the number he gave) of them explode on him. Now if true, which I highly doubt, it makes you wonder WTF could he be doing.

That statement tells me all I need to know about that guy and I would never surround myself around that type of nonsense. He's the type that would tell you a Honda Civic is a terrible car and he had 5 of them and not one made it past 1400 miles and they are junk. Whether you like that brand or not, you understand someone is full of shit when you hear that and you need to keep it moving or suffer more lies from them in the future.

[WLJ]

Because soooooo many AR's have been exploding ...

According to one of the salesmen at Kygunco, yep, he not shy about telling you why he won't own an AR is because they keep exploding. He told me he's had something like 5 (I think that was the number he gave) of them explode on him. Now if true, which I highly doubt, it makes you wonder WTF could he be doing.

That statement tells me all I need to know about that guy and I would never surround myself around that type of nonsense. He's the type that would tell you a Honda Civic is a terrible car and he had 5 of them and not one made it past 1400 miles and they are junk. Whether you like that brand or not, you understand someone is full of shit when you hear that and you need to keep it moving or suffer more lies from them in the future.

How about the "I've had 11 Taurus's and they were all a POS" stories
If 1, 2, and 3 were POSs, why the F did you go on to buy 4, 5 ,6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11?

[jackalo626]

Because soooooo many AR's have been exploding ...

According to one of the salesmen at Kygunco, yep, he not shy about telling you why he won't own an AR is because they keep exploding. He told me he's had something like 5 (I think that was the number he gave) of them explode on him. Now if true, which I highly doubt, it makes you wonder WTF could he be doing.

That statement tells me all I need to know about that guy and I would never surround myself around that type of nonsense. He's the type that would tell you a Honda Civic is a terrible car and he had 5 of them and not one made it past 1400 miles and they are junk. Whether you like that brand or not, you understand someone is full of shit when you hear that and you need to keep it moving or suffer more lies from them in the future.

How about the "I've had 11 Taurus's and they were all a POS" stories
If 1, 2, and 3 were POSs, why the F did you go on to buy 4, 5 ,6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11?

That's one of my big points in the statement and I agree. It's not only they are liars because it DIDN'T happen but if you had bad luck with a couple, you're so stupid you kept touching the stove.... ow ow ow ow this is hot... ow ow ow.

[DDgunslinger]

Agreed... in short:

Honda = Good
Taurus = Bad
Salesman at KYGUNCO = Stupid
AR > AK


Glad we got all that cleared up

[Wyldman]

Wow! That's incredible! That means that of my 11 AR rifles, over half of them should have exploded by now. Funny thing, not one of them actually has in over 40 years of shooting them.

Interesting.

BS meter pegged & needle bent.

Crush, kill, mangle, maim, destroy.