Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

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Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by ken6881 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:59 pm

Thought I would post a review of a new to me Rem 700 30-06 and results with some handloads. I picked up this 700 3 weeks ago. Shot it 10 times with two diffrent ammo brands and it grouped about 4-5inches very dissapointing to say the least. It kicked pretty bad compared to anything else I had shot. So I ordered bullets and picked up some powder and primers local. Below is a copy and paste from another fourm for reloading

Here is my first loading of some nosler custom competetion 190gr with 53gr of h4831 .010 off the lands. each brass, bullet, and powder all within .1grans. Have a latter test planned but needed something to get me on target with this remington 700 adl.
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target 1 sorry for all the mess on it small holes up and left are 223 just playing with the ar. the 5 holes to the right of bullseye are winchester 150gr hunting loads. with no change to the scope the three holes at the bottom of the target are the loads mentioned at the top of this post
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same holes covered with a penny
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same load at 200yds
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and thats where i ran out of 53 grain loads. and for what its worth this is the best group i have ever shot, and only bolt action gun i have ever owned. The stock barrel is free floated and i added 2.85lb of weight to help with recoil. otherwise its a bone stock 700 adl with a cheap 4-16 bsa scope.



Over all I am thrilled with the gun and how it performed with these hand loads performed. I measured the groups today and the 100yd was .5625" and 200yd was 1.25". Hopefully with any luck I will be able to get the groups a little tighter and be able to get out to 600 yds in the next few outings. I would really like to make it to 1000 yds by the end of the summer and make hits on a 24"x24" plate.

for what its worth based on drop from 100-200 the 190gr bullets are leaving the muzzle at 2390fps. Would like to get that number up to 2600 or better if possible.
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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by Wyldman » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:22 pm

I would suggest ladder loading a bunch of rounds to see what velocity is the sweet spot for that particular rifle. Faster is almost never more accurate, and will often damage the bore, further degrading accuracy over time.

My most accurate and consistant loads for my old 30.06 was with 180 grain bullets, running approx. 2350-2400 fps, using IMR 4320 powder and magnum primers.
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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by ken6881 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:26 pm

I have a bunch of rounds loaded for a latter test just haven't had time to try them. Planning on shooting them at 300yds
I have some hornady 180 sst but the weight is really up and down on them not consistent at all compared to the custom competition nosler


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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by Wyldman » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:52 am

Ladder testing is typically done at 100 yds. Once you have an accurate and consistant load, then you take it out further to evaluate your ballistics & scope settings.

Just sayin'....

What increments of powder (& what powder) are you using for ladder testing?
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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by ken6881 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:47 am

I am not sure you will be able to easily see the node at 100 yards everyone I know does it at longer distances to increase the vertical spread.
Using h4381 in half grain increments.


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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by Wyldman » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:08 am

Ever heard of a place to start? The whole point of ladder loading is using incrementals to close in on a precise, managed, combination of factors. Once you achieve one hole multishot groups at one range, you then extend the range and close down the increments to achieve as close to one hole groups as possible at the next range. I'm pretty sure that I don't need to explain it further, but I suspect you are just trying to short-cut the process. There are no short-cuts to true precision.

However, far be it from me to tell you your business. Do it as you see fit. I merely attempt to share long & hard won experience of my own.
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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by ken6881 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:24 am

No I will take all the advice I can get and admit I don't know much about reloading compared to a bunch of people I was just doing what seemed like the logical thing I have read. And from another forum everyone seemed to have the same opinion that a latter test at 300yds varying powder at 1% incriminates watching for pressure signs. Then go to the where you find your nodes and load in .5% increments and work in on your loads. Once satisfied with charge start varying oal.

I'm not trying to short cut anything just trying to learn and get better. If you think 100 yd latter test is worth exploring I will give it a shot I just can't seem to see where it will show anything better that a 300yd test would.
I'm really not trying to argue with you just interested in why


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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by Wyldman » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:10 am

Try to think of it as the starting point of an expanding cone, looking for the smallest possible grouping at each stage along the way. Brass batch, primer type, OAL, charge weight, & bullet weight are the variables you can control, along with the distance being shot. Even the crimp (or lack thereof) used to secure the bullet in the brass can cause some wildly unexpected results. By varying each increment to allow the best accuracy & consistancy at a given range, you make the next step up in range less cumbersome and prone to skewing your data & progress. It also makes troubleshooting unexpected issues much easier.

If you can manage a neat overlapping 3 shot group at 100 yds, that same neat overlapping 3 shot group should be possible at longer ranges, just lower on the target as the range increases, all else being equal. If everything is cool at 100, but spraying all over at 300 or 400, then you start looking for what changed at the interim steps, fall back an increment and duplicate your previous success, then try the next increment again. In the case I describe above, I'd be looking for a loss of bullet stability, keyholing, and trying to figure out why the bullet is suddenly tumbling at a given range, for example. Is the bullet too long/heavy for the twist in the barrel? Is it bleeding energy at a given range unexpectedly? Etc., etc., etc.

In this kind of load development, being methodical is crucial, and knowing what to expect from the next increment can only be gained by careful steps along the way, knowing that only one variable has been allowed to change, and what it's result is.

FYI, ladder loading is referred to as it is because you are climbing the ladder, as it were, with each increment in powder charge, all else being equal. If anything else changes, be it components or techniqes, then you have to climb back down the ladder and start over. You would be shocked at how much difference something as simple as changing your brass lot or primer type will cause. Changing other variables, such as powder type or even bullet type, can wildly skew your results. Methodology is your only refuge in knowing where these variable changes can lead you.

Please understand me, here. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, nor am I spouting something I read on the net somewhere. Everything I'm talking about here is painfully extracted from over 40 years of shooting and reloading experience by yours truly.
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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by ken6881 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:22 am

Makes sense. And i appreciate all the advice. I have been very crucial so far as to weigh every component down to the .1gr. I have notice large changes with brass via weight and volume from brand to brand. 20 grains to be specific. Honestly I was shocked at the performance of the load I was just using to sight in with.
And one question the throat on this 700 seems very deep to the point I'm worried about how much bullet is in the brass. Is there any suggestion on how much the bullet needs to be seated to be safe

Also thanks for taking the time to type that up.



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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by Wyldman » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:54 pm

No problem, happy to help.

Check your OAL specs on the cartridge. If they are too short to just meet the lands you may have some severe throat erosion. I'd consider looking at it with s borescope (I do have one) or having it checked by a competant gunsmith. If the freebore between the chamber & lands is too much, a new barrel may be in order.

Stay with cartridge size specs & you should be fine. If you can't seat the bullet shank deep enough to get at least 1-1.5mm into the case, you may have a problem that needs Cranky's expertise to fix.

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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by ken6881 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:38 pm

Could be i will have to check later but on what i am loading them to. The gun only has 2 boxes of ammo since new. So I hope it's not been eroded much. I have inspected it best I can and the bore looks crisp and where the rifling starts it looks good not like shot out barrels I have seen before.
Long term I do plan on a rebarrel to get a heavier barrel and plan to give cranky a call when I do.


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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by guncrank1 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:21 pm

I doubt your barrel is eroded with only a couple of boxes.

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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by Wyldman » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:10 pm

I'm wondering why the freebore to the lands would be so extreme as to require seating the bullet so shallow in the case neck, especially with a longer than normal 190 gr bullet. A reaming mistake? Headspace problem? It just doesn't make any sense that a new, properly set up barrel would have such an excessive reach from the case neck to the lands.
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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by son of liberty » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:03 pm

I ladder test at 300 yard, I only do this to get what I hope is the most temperature stable powder charge. I actually dont look at groups in the traditional sense , I look at the vertical spread. If I load near center of that node , my load will be more temperature stable , and while this may not produce the tightest group possible, it will be more stable and predictable when calculating long range field condition shots. Even if the ammo is on the hot side or the cold side it will be less likely to throw my shot off due to muzzle velocity variation.

I do work in that node with seating depth to try and get a tighter group, or the tightest group that my combo will allow (That is with me behind it anyway). I shoot groups until I have my load and then I dont really shoot groups but every once in a great while.

I find that most rifles with handloads are more capable then me, I mean 1 moa at 1000 yards is still 10 inches, its all the math and working out a solution that I enjoy. Rarely do I ever shoot more then 2 shots from a single position before moving to try and do it again at so other unknown.
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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by ken6881 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:07 pm

COAL is 3.463
ogive coal is 2.875
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Image

im .123 over max OAL I was figureing with the 190 I should be fine but any shorter bullet and I am going to be hard pressed to make it close to the lands. I read online that some of these 700s have alot of free bore.
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Re: Remington 700 30-06 and Hand Loads

Post by guncrank1 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:15 pm

ken6881 wrote:COAL is 3.463
ogive coal is 2.875
Image
Image

im .123 over max OAL I was figureing with the 190 I should be fine but any shorter bullet and I am going to be hard pressed to make it close to the lands. I read online that some of these 700s have alot of free bore.

Some do, to manufacturing in the tolerance stack will be larger.

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