Stab vs Cut?

[Dashammer]

Been training more and more with my every day carry rig. Taurus TCP-738 in pocket holster in right front pocket, extra mag in caro pocket and Cold Steel Recon Tanto in left front pocket. Trying to work with a blade in the off hand is to me very different and much more of a struggle. Too the question been watching alot of the show Best Defense on the outdoor channel and those guys seems to use a draw cut to immobilize vs a stab and hold. Old school Army hand to hand instructor taught stick it to the hilt and then get your weight up on the handle and let the stickee do the work, but I am likeing that draw cut followed by a make some distance approach interesting. Just wonder what you guys think and do you guys train useing the off hand. I am finding that a under hand grip is working better for me than a standard grip however it does seem to limit mobility of the blade some. How you guys doing it.

[scorpionmain]

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[gundoc]

My dad who had been in a few bar room brawls in his day always told me that a man can't fight you while he is holding his guts in.

[GunningBadger]

I'll give you an anatomic opinion. It's all about locations. If you make an incision in a location that you're likely to find a superficial artery things will go downhill quickly (I.e carotid,
Brachial, femoral or popliteal). On the other hand a random incision somewhere is unlikely to do a lot of damage. But a well placed stab wound will do greater or equal damage to The incision. I.e heart through a tamponade. This is just my opinion. YMMV.

[justang1997]

Imo a slicing cut would be better than a stab. Here are the reasons why I think so:

1. If I pull my knife out to use lethal force its probably because I already pulled my gun out and am now struggling for control of the gun. My new priority is control of the firearm and I feel like slicing the wrist/forearm/back of hand will make him let go sooner than a stab with my 3ish inch pocket folder.

2. If for some reason I only had a knife and lethal force was needed I think a slice to induce more bleeding will be more effective in causing the person to fear they are about to die and stop the attack. Plus I may get lucky and slice a critical point on his body.

3. My pocket knife has no guard. If I were to stab and hit bone I'm sure my hand would slip onto the blade.

[Wyldman]

My fencing instructor told me 50,000 times, if he ever said it once: "The point is mightier than the edge."

A slice, while being bloody, and looking bad, will rarely incapacitate unless it is exceptionally deep and very hard to inflict. A stab, on the other hand is quick, effecient, deep, and very likely to hit a vital organ on the first attempt. The shock of a stab wound to the torso is devastating and can easily stop an opponent with a single thrust. These tenets of blade fighting have been refined over 500+ years of conflict, and while there are few absolutes in hand to hand fighting, one is that if you run a man through, you will rarely have to do it twice.

[Marcus]

Look at prisons. They make weapons to stab, not slice.

[jackalo626]

Look at prisons. They make weapons to stab, not slice.

In all fairness they are societies biggest failures at everything so why would they start doing anything right in prison? JK but serious I don't want to be cut or stabbed.

[justang1997]

Respectfully disagree. A fencing sword or fixed blade fighting knife isn't the same as a pocket folder. Now if I had a sword or large knife I'd be stabbing too.

[WLJ]

Look out! it's dangerous!

[GunningBadger]

Respectfully disagree. A fencing sword or fixed blade fighting knife isn't the same as a pocket folder. Now if I had a sword or large knife I'd be stabbing too.

I'd agree with this. A good incision with a smaller knife is a lot more effective. Honestly when you cut into an obese abdomen you may have to go through four or five inches of fat to even get in. The neck vessels sit only a centimeter or so below the skin.

[GeminiXD9]

Aw hell. Right after you slice em, stab em! Best of both worlds

[DDgunslinger]

Ok I'll throw in my two cents here. I have done Escrima for several years. This was originally designed in the the Philippines and based on the weapon of choice being a machete. You will also here Escrima referred to as Pilipino stick fighting. This discipline is focused primarily on slicing, rather than stabbing. I understand that obviously we aren't walking around machetes, however their 5 basic strikes as well as stance is extremely effective for both offensive and defensive knife fighting. My primary issue with trying to stab your opponent constantly is you tend to over extend yourself, therefore leaving yourself open for a counter strike. Also in order for you to stab you typically have to close the distance quickly and go for something vital. The issue with this is if you are facing a larger stronger opponent it gives them the opportunity to get there hands on you and possibly get your weapon away from you.

There are pros and cons to every discipline, Escrima is what I have found works best for me and it allows me to apply it to a variety of different weapons. Anyway, like said that's just my .02 on the subject.

[son of liberty]

My primary knowlage base is also Eskrima, Arnis or FMA. DD has said it as best as one can, It takes a lot of work to get to a point you can stab someone without over exposing yourself.

Prision stabbings are murders, not fights. They hide in chow line and when some guy is eating his PB&J they sewing machine him until the guy they are stabbing beats there ass off of him, do they die? Well some do but its after the whole fight has ended unless some lucky hit finds home, and they stab like 30 times in hope of finding that one. Why do they stab, well its simple its a lot easier to shove a nail up your ass then razor blade.

[BIGC]

dad taught me a little of the hand to hand techniques that he was trained in the military and it was almost whole and totally slashing with the only stabs being if someone was close and advancing... Not sure what style or name it was called but the basis was knife forward with slashes.

[Toddstang]

Paper cuts = instant shock factor!

[Frailer]

FWIW, the baddest SOB I've ever known was a member of one of those units that has never been mentioned in the news and that few people even within the secret squirrel community have ever heard of (I certainly hadn't). These guys often visit unfriendly places in "groups" as small as two (and, on at least one occasion I'm aware of, completely alone). Furthermore, they sometimes go places where they can't carry a firearm.

He didn't carry a "self defense knife" at all; his defensive weapon of choice was an ASP baton.

Of course, this guy could kick my ass with a #2 pencil.

[Netto]

I understand that obviously we aren't walking around machetes

Wait... You mean you guys don't walk around with machetes...?

I thought I was... Nevermind.

[Nolan]

slice a brother up so bad he think he was trapped in a telephone booth with a rabid bobcat

[justang1997]

FWIW, the baddest SOB I've ever known was a member of one of those units that has never been mentioned in the news and that few people even within the secret squirrel community have ever heard of (I certainly hadn't). These guys often visit unfriendly places in "groups" as small as two (and, on at least one occasion I'm aware of, completely alone). Furthermore, they sometimes go places where they can't carry a firearm.

He didn't carry a "self defense knife" at all; his defensive weapon of choice was an ASP baton.

Of course, this guy could kick my ass with a #2 pencil.

The problem with a baton is the level of training required to be good with it. Take 2 novices and give one a knife and one a baton, and my bet is on the guy with the knife every time.

[Dashammer]

Marshal Blade Concepts is I think the system that guy on Best Defense teaches. I am kind of likeing that draw cut to immoblize followed by getting some distance theory. Too stab like you guys said you got to be tight and tight is bad, more than likely your going to end up on the floor at tight and that is real bad. IMHO stab is drive it home and then a pull or push keeping the blade full stick, not a withdraw and then a restab, kind of what Sgt. said to do. But that flexer/tendon draw cut maybe the best in some cases. Because as the man said "He who runs away lives to fight another day". Going to start training alot more with the Draw Cut, just to add another card to the deck.

[Frailer]

FWIW, the baddest SOB I've ever known was a member of one of those units that has never been mentioned in the news and that few people even within the secret squirrel community have ever heard of (I certainly hadn't). These guys often visit unfriendly places in "groups" as small as two (and, on at least one occasion I'm aware of, completely alone). Furthermore, they sometimes go places where they can't carry a firearm.

He didn't carry a "self defense knife" at all; his defensive weapon of choice was an ASP baton.

Of course, this guy could kick my ass with a #2 pencil.

The problem with a baton is the level of training required to be good with it. Take 2 novices and give one a knife and one a baton, and my bet is on the guy with the knife every time.

Much knife training centers around how to hurt the other guy, while baton training generally centers around not killing the other guy.

[son of liberty]

The only guy I know who is/was one of them guys you never hear about , also claims the ASP baton is his weapon of choice over a knife.