Complete Lower

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Complete Lower

Post by HEYOPEY » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:19 pm

Can you buy a complete lower and remove the stock/buffer tube and replace it with a brace/brave tube? Or is that an illegal SBR? I've also just got stripped lowers never a complete.


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Re: Complete Lower

Post by ssracer » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:23 pm

From what I have read and even the legal brief over on the gun collective, a lower that has never been on an upper is not yet a firearm. So you can buy a complete lower, remove the stock and make it into a pistol.

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Re: Complete Lower

Post by iron369 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:06 pm

I have been told by no person of any authority that once it has a stock on it, it is a rifle and cannot be a pistol. A pistol can become a rifle but not the other way around.
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Re: Complete Lower

Post by Niceguy » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:44 pm

iron369 wrote:I have been told by no person of any authority that once it has a stock on it, it is a rifle and cannot be a pistol. A pistol can become a rifle but not the other way around.
That has been my take... But I've never seen anything convincing either way. You got to love all the gray areas...

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Re: Complete Lower

Post by 86 slo-vo » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:17 pm

A complete lower receiver with a stock will probably be labeled at a rifle on a 4473 from a dealer.
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Re: Complete Lower

Post by HEYOPEY » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:19 pm


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Re: Complete Lower

Post by Toddstang » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:40 pm

Niceguy wrote:
iron369 wrote:I have been told by no person of any authority that once it has a stock on it, it is a rifle and cannot be a pistol. A pistol can become a rifle but not the other way around.
That has been my take... But I've never seen anything convincing either way. You got to love all the gray areas...
Yep

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Re: Complete Lower

Post by guncrank1 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:47 pm

86 slo-vo wrote:A complete lower receiver with a stock will probably be labeled at a rifle on a 4473 from a dealer.

Not likely it does not have a barrel , so it is not a rifle.

It is a firearm.

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Re: Complete Lower

Post by 86 slo-vo » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:48 pm

That's just what was done at the shop I was at for a while.
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Re: Complete Lower

Post by guncrank1 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:49 pm

A complete lower is a firearm and can only be bought by a state resident and a person 21 years old.

It can be pistol.

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Re: Complete Lower

Post by guncrank1 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:51 pm

86 slo-vo wrote:That's just what was done at the shop I was at for a while.

See Hoppies -ATF letter it explains the federal code interpretation by the Technical Branch.

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Re: Complete Lower

Post by HEYOPEY » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:25 pm

The way I take the letter I posted above if it has never had a barreled upper attached you are good to go with removing the stock and replacing it with a brace. So section B number 18 on a 4473 would be marked as "Other Firearm" correct?

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Re: Complete Lower

Post by Whootsinator » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:36 am

HEYOPEY wrote:The way I take the letter I posted above if it has never had a barreled upper attached you are good to go with removing the stock and replacing it with a brace. So section B number 18 on a 4473 would be marked as "Other Firearm" correct?
According to the ATF agent responsible for Northern Kentucky, it should go out as it came in. If it was sent from the manufacturer as a rifle, it is a rifle. If it was sent as a pistol, it should go out as a pistol, if it came in as a "firearm" it should go out as a firearm. I bought a complete lower with stock installed, and had it transferred to me before I was 21. At first the FBI kicked the sale back and said I couldn't legally purchase a "firearm" under the age of 21. However, the ATF agent advised the FFL to "manufacture" it into a rifle... strike the "firearm" from his books and enter it back in as a rifle after I had installed my rifle upper. Then it was officially transferred to me as a rifle.

Obviously this isn't the exact scenario you are asking about, but I share it to give some insight. If your lower went through the dealer as a "firearm" it shouldn't be a rifle until a rifle upper is attached, but you can't just write whatever you want it to be on the paperwork. It is what it came to the FFL as.
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Re: Complete Lower

Post by guncrank1 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:54 am

HEYOPEY wrote:The way I take the letter I posted above if it has never had a barreled upper attached you are good to go with removing the stock and replacing it with a brace. So section B number 18 on a 4473 would be marked as "Other Firearm" correct?

Yes a firearm can be made into a handgun, and it is marked 18 as a other
But what is marked on 4473 after 17 is not up to the buyer. That is the FFL holder sole choice.

And even if it is marked a rifle , what is marked on the 4473 does nothing to change the fact that a complete lower is a firearm and requires 21/state resident. And can be a handgu. Or rifle or SBR or even a shotgun.

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