ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

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ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by Whootsinator » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:04 pm

https://www.sb-tactical.com/blog/sb-tac ... ng-braces/
SB Tactical_ATF Reversal of Open Letter Position
Saint Petersburg, Fla. (April, 25, 2017) – SB Tactical™, inventors and manufacturers of the Pistol Stabilizing Brace®, is excited to announce that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) has issued SB Tactical a reversal letter containing a sensible clarification of the Bureau’s position on the lawful use of SB Tactical braces.
The new clarification of opinion letter states, “an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made when the device is not reconfigured for use as a shoulder stock – even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder. To the extent that the January 2015 Open Letter implied or has been construed to hold that incidental, sporadic, or situational “use” of an arm-brace (in its original approved configuration) equipped firearm from a firing position at or near the shoulder was sufficient to constitute “redesign,” such interpretations are incorrect and not consistent with ATF’s interpretation of the statute or the manner in which it has historically been enforced.”
SB Tactical, along with the law offices of Mark Barnes & Associates, have worked tirelessly for more than two years to correct what they believed to be an inaccurate interpretation of “redesign,” related to the Pistol Stabilizing Brace. “It has always been our belief that the addition of our Pistol Stabilizing Brace benefits shooters, both disabled and able-bodied, and that neither strapping it to your arm nor shouldering a brace equipped pistol would constitute ‘redesign’ of a pistol to a NFA firearm”, said Alex Bosco, inventor, founder and CEO of SB Tactical. “We are strongly encouraged by the ATF’s reversal of opinion and commend their willingness to continually review policy, including their own opinions, to ensure public safety and the fulfillment of their mission.”
Both SB Tactical and Mark Barnes & Associates are proud to be at the forefront of protecting and preserving the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans. Mark Barnes echoed Bosco’s praise of the ATF’s new guidance and stated that “it’s clear that the Bureau has no intention or desire to prosecute law abiding citizens using SB Tactical Pistol Stabilizing Braces. Their decision to act should be commended.”
I haven't seen a legitimate copy of the letter posted yet.
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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by WLJ » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:53 pm

This is suppose to be the letter
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-co ... .21.17.pdf

If I'm reading it right nothing is actually changed
There are criminals among us who are both homicidal and incorrigible. Their parents took a shot at civilizing them and failed. Their school teachers took a shot at them and failed. The odds are overwhelming that government welfare programs and penal institutions took a shot at them and failed. If it ever becomes your turn to take a shot at them, don’t fail.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by guncrank1 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:59 am

WLJ wrote:This is suppose to be the letter
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-co ... .21.17.pdf

If I'm reading it right nothing is actually changed
If you remove the arm strap or alter the brace or glue it to the tube then you have a NFA firearm.

Else if it is shouldered then it is still a handgun.

Not sure about the blade type braces.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by WLJ » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:28 am

The very first paragraph in a nutshell says nothing has changed. I'm so confused!
Besides I don't trust letters from the ATF saying what is and what isn't legal. What a ATF pencil pusher gives in a letter can be taken away by another pencil pusher in a letter. I want something more concrete, like an official clearly stated law.
There are criminals among us who are both homicidal and incorrigible. Their parents took a shot at civilizing them and failed. Their school teachers took a shot at them and failed. The odds are overwhelming that government welfare programs and penal institutions took a shot at them and failed. If it ever becomes your turn to take a shot at them, don’t fail.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by Wyldman » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:19 pm

ATF doesn't deal in law, it deals in opinions and policies.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by Niceguy » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:22 pm

Wyldman wrote:ATF doesn't deal in law, it deals in opinions and policies.

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Absolutely this!!!

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by WLJ » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:32 pm

Wyldman wrote:ATF doesn't deal in law, it deals in opinions and policies.

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Which is another reason why they need to be flushed down the toilet bowl of history.
Last edited by WLJ on Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are criminals among us who are both homicidal and incorrigible. Their parents took a shot at civilizing them and failed. Their school teachers took a shot at them and failed. The odds are overwhelming that government welfare programs and penal institutions took a shot at them and failed. If it ever becomes your turn to take a shot at them, don’t fail.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by Wyldman » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:35 pm

If only that would happen!

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by WLJ » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:45 pm

While this applies to all pistol braces, you must ensure that what you have is actually a pistol brace and the firearm you are dealing with is a pistol in the first place! Just because a manufacturer calls their product a pistol brace doesn’t necessarily mean that the ATF agrees.
What the ATF Told Me About the SB Tactical Pistol Brace: Ryan Cleckner
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/0 ... -cleckner/
There are criminals among us who are both homicidal and incorrigible. Their parents took a shot at civilizing them and failed. Their school teachers took a shot at them and failed. The odds are overwhelming that government welfare programs and penal institutions took a shot at them and failed. If it ever becomes your turn to take a shot at them, don’t fail.

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ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by iron369 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:50 pm

Saw this on FB site.
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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by kokopelli » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:52 pm

...and that is only the opinion of ONE agent...and another agent's opinion can override that, as proven by the ATF itself on multiple occasions.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by rustynuts » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:39 am

kokopelli wrote:...and that is only the opinion of ONE agent...and another agent's opinion can override that, as proven by the ATF itself on multiple occasions.
Yep. I tried to tell that to one of the guys here at work but he wouldn't listen.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by Frailer » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:49 pm

I don't shoot with ATF agents.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by WLJ » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:58 pm

Then don't shoot at KCR and shoulder a pistol brace, heard the RSO has been known to jump people's shit for doing just that.
There are criminals among us who are both homicidal and incorrigible. Their parents took a shot at civilizing them and failed. Their school teachers took a shot at them and failed. The odds are overwhelming that government welfare programs and penal institutions took a shot at them and failed. If it ever becomes your turn to take a shot at them, don’t fail.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by jackalo626 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:32 pm

WLJ wrote:Then don't shoot at KCR and shoulder a pistol brace, heard the RSO has been known to jump people's shit for doing just that.
Who the fuck shoots there anyways? If that place hasn't ran you off yet then I bet you pay dominatrix also.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by PDM » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:50 pm

jackalo626 wrote:
WLJ wrote:Then don't shoot at KCR and shoulder a pistol brace, heard the RSO has been known to jump people's shit for doing just that.
Who the fuck shoots there anyways? If that place hasn't ran you off yet then I bet you pay dominatrix also.

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That's the consensus around here too lol
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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by jackalo626 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:51 pm

PDM wrote:
jackalo626 wrote:
WLJ wrote:Then don't shoot at KCR and shoulder a pistol brace, heard the RSO has been known to jump people's shit for doing just that.
Who the fuck shoots there anyways? If that place hasn't ran you off yet then I bet you pay dominatrix also.

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That's the consensus around here too lol
That place has been dead to so many people for at least 5 years.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by WLJ » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:56 pm

Pretty much
There are criminals among us who are both homicidal and incorrigible. Their parents took a shot at civilizing them and failed. Their school teachers took a shot at them and failed. The odds are overwhelming that government welfare programs and penal institutions took a shot at them and failed. If it ever becomes your turn to take a shot at them, don’t fail.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by WLJ » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:03 pm

There are criminals among us who are both homicidal and incorrigible. Their parents took a shot at civilizing them and failed. Their school teachers took a shot at them and failed. The odds are overwhelming that government welfare programs and penal institutions took a shot at them and failed. If it ever becomes your turn to take a shot at them, don’t fail.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by WLJ » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:17 pm

This is in the MAC video comments
Edit: User comment from FirearmsBlog: " I just got off the phone with a very nice gentleman at ATF Tech Branch---who was fielding these calls today. (He was, understandably, very well versed on the subject---and very nice about it even though he's been on the phone all day, repeating himself ad nauseam.) I identified myself and asked him specifically if the letter that's making the rounds is limited to one company's products--or if it applies to all pistol stabilizing braces. He said: "The letter covers all pistol stabilizing braces, including the Shockwave Blade." So that settles that. He then gave me two points of further guidance for our customers: 1. By "permanent affixing," ATF considers that to be adding permanent Loctite to the large set screw that secures the Blade into the dimples in the KAK tube. As long as you don't red Loctite the set screw in place, ATF considers it to be "temporarily placed" and "perfectly okay to shoulder." (He didn't beat around the bush on this topic.) 2. "Length of pull"---for lack of a better word regarding pistol braces---begins to enter a "gray area" above 13.5". Above 13.5" begins "to enter shoulder stock area." (His words.) On an AR-15 pistol, the "length of pull" for the Blade is approximately 13.13", so no issues there. But if you use the Blade on a firearm that requires a large adapter of some sort, please make sure that you only use the dimples up to the point that you remain below the 13.5" length. Stay below 13.5" and according to ATF, it's okay to shoulder a Shockwave Blade. " Quoted from: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017 ... qus_thread
There are criminals among us who are both homicidal and incorrigible. Their parents took a shot at civilizing them and failed. Their school teachers took a shot at them and failed. The odds are overwhelming that government welfare programs and penal institutions took a shot at them and failed. If it ever becomes your turn to take a shot at them, don’t fail.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by Toecutter1978 » Thu May 04, 2017 1:15 pm

jackalo626 wrote:
WLJ wrote: I bet you pay dominatrix also.

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Why you know a place?

Hahahahaha!!!!

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by jackalo626 » Thu May 04, 2017 1:19 pm

Toecutter1978 wrote:
jackalo626 wrote:
WLJ wrote: I bet you pay dominatrix also.

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Why you know a place?

Hahahahaha!!!!

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I don't shoot guns.

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Re: ATF Reversal Letter OK's Shouldering Pistol Braces

Post by WLJ » Thu May 04, 2017 2:26 pm

Somebody screwed up who said what in the quotes above
There are criminals among us who are both homicidal and incorrigible. Their parents took a shot at civilizing them and failed. Their school teachers took a shot at them and failed. The odds are overwhelming that government welfare programs and penal institutions took a shot at them and failed. If it ever becomes your turn to take a shot at them, don’t fail.

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