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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#101  PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:21 am 
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To recap what I've been reading on that bastion of absolute truth called the internet

* Clearly the P320 has drop safe issues.
* According to everything I've read the M17 does not.
* Some are taking this to mean that Sig knew about the issue and made changes to the M17 trigger setup and intended to quietly resolve the issue in the P320 with the M17 trigger setup later.
* Some are calling BS on that and saying the Army requested changes in the M17's trigger during testing and the fact that the M17's doesn't have drop safe issues is merely coincidence.
* If the Army did request a change in the trigger, why?
* Glock fanboys are creaming their pants over this.

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Last edited by WLJ on Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#102  PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:28 am 
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Did anybody else watch the next video attached to that one, how to make your Sig drop safe? Guy carefully took a Sig and placed it inside a Pelican case. Then slowly placed it in the bottom of his safe.

Hahaha!

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#103  PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:41 am 
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Seriously! This is Sigs answer to their fuck up
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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#104  PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:47 am 
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Toecutter1978 wrote:
Did anybody else watch the next video attached to that one, how to make your Sig drop safe? Guy carefully took a Sig and placed it inside a Pelican case. Then slowly placed it in the bottom of his safe.

Hahaha!

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Tacticalshit did a video on how to make it safe by removing the firing pin. Then since it's now useless carry a Glock. It was pretty funny.


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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#105  PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:04 am 
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I say we drop it. Wait, no.

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#106  PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:09 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#107  PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:36 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#108  PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:45 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#109  PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:50 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#110  PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:51 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#111  PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:26 pm 
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ssracer wrote:
Toecutter1978 wrote:
Did anybody else watch the next video attached to that one, how to make your Sig drop safe? Guy carefully took a Sig and placed it inside a Pelican case. Then slowly placed it in the bottom of his safe.

Hahaha!

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Tacticalshit did a video on how to make it safe by removing the firing pin. Then since it's now useless carry a Glock. It was pretty funny.


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That is funny!

I love it when a firearm has issues and we all jump on The hate bandwagon! Good times.

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#112  PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:27 pm 
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PDM wrote:
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Hahaha!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#113  PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:52 pm 
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SIG SAUER Announces Details of Free P320 ‘Voluntary Upgrade’ Program
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/0 ... e-program/

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#114  PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:39 am 
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Heard of Sharknado?
Based on what I'm reading new movie coming out along those lines titled Signado

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#115  PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:18 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#116  PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:45 am 
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Hahahahahaha


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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#117  PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:26 pm 
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https://www.google.com/amp/www.thefirea ... -november/

So the first sidearms are rolling out in November.

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#118  PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:56 pm 
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It's obvious that $ rules over quality and our service men and womens lives.

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#119  PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Toddstang wrote:
It's obvious that $ rules over quality and our service men and womens lives.


They could issue water pistols, and it wouldn’t make an appreciable difference.

I carried an Army-issued pistol for 20 odd years, and my considered opinion is that their primary purpose for 99% of those who carry them is to provide the illusion of being armed while leaving your hands free to do other things. Whenever I went someplace where I might need to shoot somebody I borrowed a rifle.

FWIW the 1911 I was issued back in the day wasn’t drop-safe either.


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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#120  PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:52 am 
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Frailer wrote:
Toddstang wrote:
It's obvious that $ rules over quality and our service men and womens lives.


They could issue water pistols, and it wouldn’t make an appreciable difference.

I carried an Army-issued pistol for 20 odd years, and my considered opinion is that their primary purpose for 99% of those who carry them is to provide the illusion of being armed while leaving your hands free to do other things. Whenever I went someplace where I might need to shoot somebody I borrowed a rifle.

FWIW the 1911 I was issued back in the day wasn’t drop-safe either.



Haha, true dat on the dropsies,

but glad someone didn't tell Sgt York not to take a sidearm!!


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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#121  PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:20 pm 
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WLJ wrote:
To recap what I've been reading on that bastion of absolute truth called the internet

* Clearly the P320 has drop safe issues.
* According to everything I've read the M17 does not.
* Some are taking this to mean that Sig knew about the issue and made changes to the M17 trigger setup and intended to quietly resolve the issue in the P320 with the M17 trigger setup later.
* Some are calling BS on that and saying the Army requested changes in the M17's trigger during testing and the fact that the M17's doesn't have drop safe issues is merely coincidence.
* If the Army did request a change in the trigger, why?
* Glock fanboys are creaming their pants over this.


Hmmmm

According to this the M17 may have had drop fire issues

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/0 ... -u-s-army/
Quote:
Inside the Pentagon’s DOT&E FY 2017 Annual Report, a standard bureaucratic work product usually full of dry legalese regarding expensive weapons systems soon to be canceled for cost overruns, there is a section on the Sig Sauer XM17 / XM18 pistols. It contains several interesting facts about the pistol program.

One of the more interesting statements in the report is the fact that the Army discovered the drop fire issue with the XM17 pistols prior to it becoming known to the world with the P320 pistol.

The wording of the report is not entirely clear on the exact date, but it states the Army directed SIG to develop an ECP, or Engineering Change Proposal, to lighten the weight of the components in the trigger to fix the drop fire issue. This ECP-updated, non-drop-fire pistol was the one which took part in PVT, or Product Verification Test, beginning in April 2017.

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#122  PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:06 pm 
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WLJ wrote:
WLJ wrote:
To recap what I've been reading on that bastion of absolute truth called the internet

* Clearly the P320 has drop safe issues.
* According to everything I've read the M17 does not.
* Some are taking this to mean that Sig knew about the issue and made changes to the M17 trigger setup and intended to quietly resolve the issue in the P320 with the M17 trigger setup later.
* Some are calling BS on that and saying the Army requested changes in the M17's trigger during testing and the fact that the M17's doesn't have drop safe issues is merely coincidence.
* If the Army did request a change in the trigger, why?
* Glock fanboys are creaming their pants over this.


Hmmmm

According to this the M17 may have had drop fire issues

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/0 ... -u-s-army/
Quote:
Inside the Pentagon’s DOT&E FY 2017 Annual Report, a standard bureaucratic work product usually full of dry legalese regarding expensive weapons systems soon to be canceled for cost overruns, there is a section on the Sig Sauer XM17 / XM18 pistols. It contains several interesting facts about the pistol program.

One of the more interesting statements in the report is the fact that the Army discovered the drop fire issue with the XM17 pistols prior to it becoming known to the world with the P320 pistol.

The wording of the report is not entirely clear on the exact date, but it states the Army directed SIG to develop an ECP, or Engineering Change Proposal, to lighten the weight of the components in the trigger to fix the drop fire issue. This ECP-updated, non-drop-fire pistol was the one which took part in PVT, or Product Verification Test, beginning in April 2017.
The M9 didn't have this issue, just saying.

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#123  PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:03 am 
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https://sofrep.com/98976/dod-evaluation ... ed-issues/

According to a study conducted in 2017 and released earlier this month, the Army’s new service pistol, a military variant of the Sig Sauer P320, has exhibited a number of persistent deficiencies and reliability issues through DoD testing, including but not limited to the drop test failures Sig has already announced voluntary recalls to correct.

The U.S. Army’s announcement that they would be ordering some 300,000 full sized M17 and more compact M18 modular pistol platforms from Sig Sauer has not been without controversy. Almost immediately after the announcement, Glock (who had a vested interest in the competition for the Army contract in the form of their Glock 19X) levied a formal protest, claiming that the P320 did not meet the standards established by the Defense Department in certain critical tests. Now, with other branches considering adopting the military variant of the P320 as their own general issue sidearm, DoD testing would seem to suggest that Glock may have been right.

The results of a series of tests of the M17 and M18 platforms were revealed in an annual report compiled by the Pentagon’s Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation, alongside similar testing on a variety of platforms throughout fiscal year 2017. According to the report, the Sig Saur Modular Handgun Systems (MHS) exhibited a number of issues throughout testing that took place between April and September of last year. Primary among them, the aforementioned drop test issue that made headlines late last year. If dropped from the correct angle (onto the dovetail of the pistol) the M17 and M18 platforms are prone to discharging a round.

It is important to note, however, that Sig Sauer has acknowledged and made strides to correct this issue, and although it remains unclear how they went about remedying the issue in the service pistols, it was likely in a similar fashion to the corrections made to the civilian variants seen failing the same test in videos all across the internet.

Perhaps more disconcerting, however, were the other issues the Pentagon’s testing exposed: in two instances, the trigger assemblies in pistols splintered apart during use – an issue that had never come up before Sig implemented changes to the trigger to resolve the drop-test failure. This means the new components intended to solve one problem may have inadvertently caused another.

The report also went on to indicate that the pistol has a propensity for ejecting live rounds alongside spent shells, though it clarifies that this does not usually result in a misfeed or malfunction. Nonetheless, ejecting live rounds could be a concern in combat zones, where every round may count in some survival situations. According to the tests, the issue becomes more prominent the more often the pistol is fired.

That isn’t the end of the MHS’ ammunition woes. While the pistol apparently has no issue cycling the Army’s new XM1153 “special purpose” cartridge, a hollow point round, it apparently does not function reliably when loaded with the standard XM1152 “ball” rounds used most often in service. In order to qualify as a military service weapon, the pistol must be able to fire 2,000 rounds without stoppages at least 95% of the time – a standard both the M17 and M18 pistols were able to meet with hollow points, but with standard ammo, that reliability rate dropped to a dismal 75% in the full size platform, and an even worse 60% on the compact one.

It is unclear what steps the Army has taken to resolve these issues, but the report does indicate that the Army is working with Sig to address them. In the mean time, the pistol platform began distribution to Army units last November, meaning those pistols will either suffer these reliability issues, or will have to be repaired in the near future.



Now it is coming out that it has a difficult time feeding standard ammo.
Also the double ejection feature is a hat tilt to the ammunition manufacturer. You buy more rounds this way. It's so simple.

WUT!

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 Post subject: Re: Army Chooses Sig Sauer as Army's New Pistol
Post Number:#124  PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:06 pm 
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http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... ling-24444

U.S. Special Operations Command intends to transform some of its standard-issue M4 carbines into Sig Sauer MCX Rattler personal defense weapons, apparently satisfying the command’s year-long hunt for the daintiest little assault rifle on the market.

The contract with Sig Sauer, managed by U.S. Army Contracting Command (ACC) and released on Feb. 1, detailed SOCOM’s plan to purchase 10 MCX Personal Defense Weapons (PDW) conversion kits that, built on the lower receiver of an M4A1, can chamber both .300 Blackout cartridges and standard 5.56 mm rounds.


Well looks like Sig gets a chance to mess up some rifle platforms along with the their sidearm.

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