irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
- ChopperDoc
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irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
about the result I figured.
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- DDgunslinger
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
Thank you, this is guy pretty much said the exact same thing I've been saying with some video proof to go along with it.
- DDgunslinger
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
Pistol with red dot gives pretty much zero advantage over a pistol with iron sights. Therefore, good marksmanship fundamentals and time on the trigger TRUMP all.
Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
excellent, thanks!DDgunslinger wrote:Pistol with red dot gives pretty much zero advantage over a pistol with iron sights. Therefore, good marksmanship fundamentals and time on the trigger TRUMP all.
- Whootsinator
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
I can't watch the video right now, but if a red dot or holographic sight gives such an advantage when on rifles what makes it so useless on a pistol?DDgunslinger wrote:Pistol with red dot gives pretty much zero advantage over a pistol with iron sights. Therefore, good marksmanship fundamentals and time on the trigger TRUMP all.
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- ssracer
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
IMO, the major differences between iron vs red dot between pistol and rifle would be:
1. Sight picture..the irons on a rifle obscure much more of your field of view through your dominance eye than the irons on a pistol.
2. Accuracy over distance...for a lot of people it's easier to shoot more accurately at a longer distance with a rifle equipped with a red dot over irons because the dot doesn't obscure as much of the target as a sight post and it takes all of the guessing out of properly aligning the sights. With a pistol, your effective range isn't far enough for it to make a difference.
Again, all my opinion. I've never shot a pistol with a red dot but I love the eotech on my AR.
1. Sight picture..the irons on a rifle obscure much more of your field of view through your dominance eye than the irons on a pistol.
2. Accuracy over distance...for a lot of people it's easier to shoot more accurately at a longer distance with a rifle equipped with a red dot over irons because the dot doesn't obscure as much of the target as a sight post and it takes all of the guessing out of properly aligning the sights. With a pistol, your effective range isn't far enough for it to make a difference.
Again, all my opinion. I've never shot a pistol with a red dot but I love the eotech on my AR.
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
Good questionWhootsinator wrote:I can't watch the video right now, but if a red dot or holographic sight gives such an advantage when on rifles what makes it so useless on a pistol?DDgunslinger wrote:Pistol with red dot gives pretty much zero advantage over a pistol with iron sights. Therefore, good marksmanship fundamentals and time on the trigger TRUMP all.
A lot of the big boys in the pistol matches shoot red dots
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- ssracer
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
I would say in competitive matches where places are separated by milliseconds, a red dot might give more of an advantage on a pistol than any other real world application.
In self defense I'd be willing to bet that in most cases the sights don't even come into play.
In self defense I'd be willing to bet that in most cases the sights don't even come into play.
- Whootsinator
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
"Don't even use your sights" makes me immediately think of "It's a shotgun, just point 'er in the genrul direction and start squeezin' the trigger!", which we all know isn't the proper way to do things. I understand the concepts of reflexive and 'point' shooting, but I will not ignore my sights. I will reflexively put that red dot center mass of my target, not reflexively point at it and hope.
edit - another thing I can't stand... comparing competitive shooting to combative shooting, saying the milliseconds only matter is competition. Combative shooting is a competition... the winner gets his or her life. I want those milliseconds, and I want my life. I am not saying everyone should be carrying around race guns, but not using something simply because the small amount of extra time granted "isn't necessary" in a life or death scenario... is bull shit.
I'm not saying either side of the argument is wrong, but I am saying it will take a good argument to convince me.
edit - another thing I can't stand... comparing competitive shooting to combative shooting, saying the milliseconds only matter is competition. Combative shooting is a competition... the winner gets his or her life. I want those milliseconds, and I want my life. I am not saying everyone should be carrying around race guns, but not using something simply because the small amount of extra time granted "isn't necessary" in a life or death scenario... is bull shit.
I'm not saying either side of the argument is wrong, but I am saying it will take a good argument to convince me.
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- ssracer
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
I was referring on the streets/in the home self defense, not military, where use of a pistol to defend yourself is more likely to be at arms length distances. The type of situation where getting a proper sight picture, or even being able to get the gun up to eye level, may not be possible.
- DDgunslinger
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
Rifle = Shoulder fired weapon, weapon is more stable and goes in the same place everytime thus allows you to acquire the red dot quickly.Whootsinator wrote:I can't watch the video right now, but if a red dot or holographic sight gives such an advantage when on rifles what makes it so useless on a pistol?DDgunslinger wrote:Pistol with red dot gives pretty much zero advantage over a pistol with iron sights. Therefore, good marksmanship fundamentals and time on the trigger TRUMP all.
Pistol = Hand held weapon, weapon is less stable and moves a lot more during transition. You end up spending almost the same amount of time acquiring the red dot as you do regular iron sights.
I'm not saying red dots on pistol aren't useful or have a place for competition shooters. However, in my opinion they arent worth while on a combat pistol... unless you just want to have a RDS on your pistol.
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
Back in the 80's there was an older guy here in town that held self defense pistol classes, and his training guns had no sights at all. Anyone else remember this guy? He hung out at Rays Gun Shop when it was on Preston Hgwy.
- son of liberty
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
I have run both. When the Optima 2000 first came out we put it on the back of a S&W Sigma and ran it as a whore gun like that for some time. that was 10+ years ago. When the trend came back around I gave it a try again, both times I have come to the same conclusion. It works, and for some who like it it works very well, but for every thing it helped on, it cost me in some place else.
On the draw on the gun I slightly tip the front upward just a bit so that my eye is on the front sight and I index it on the target while bringing the rear up to match, much the same way an M14 mag seats in the rifle. If I do this with a red dot I have no reference , no sight until the view finder screen is lined up right , so I dont actually pick up the dot until I have the trigger half pulled and then I tend to over shoot the dot meaning I go to far and end up putting the first round low. This same effect happens on recoil , I just cant control the recoil enough to maintain sight picture, I think this in large part due to the recoil and the sight ridding the slide. With Irons I can always see both sights and I know just how much movement is needed to bring them in line. Now if I was a form shooter standing just right and punching out just right I could probably pick the red dot up just right, but im leaning around shit , shooting one handed, and shooting from all sorts of messed up body positions.
A real easy way to test this out is to get a straw from McDs , hold it in your fingers and point it at something lineing it up from the top of the straw, just look down the top and line it up, now try to line up the hole in the same way.
By all means if it works for you then rock it, but for me the irons work BETTER, not just as fast, better.
DD is spot on, thats just what I found.
On the draw on the gun I slightly tip the front upward just a bit so that my eye is on the front sight and I index it on the target while bringing the rear up to match, much the same way an M14 mag seats in the rifle. If I do this with a red dot I have no reference , no sight until the view finder screen is lined up right , so I dont actually pick up the dot until I have the trigger half pulled and then I tend to over shoot the dot meaning I go to far and end up putting the first round low. This same effect happens on recoil , I just cant control the recoil enough to maintain sight picture, I think this in large part due to the recoil and the sight ridding the slide. With Irons I can always see both sights and I know just how much movement is needed to bring them in line. Now if I was a form shooter standing just right and punching out just right I could probably pick the red dot up just right, but im leaning around shit , shooting one handed, and shooting from all sorts of messed up body positions.
A real easy way to test this out is to get a straw from McDs , hold it in your fingers and point it at something lineing it up from the top of the straw, just look down the top and line it up, now try to line up the hole in the same way.
By all means if it works for you then rock it, but for me the irons work BETTER, not just as fast, better.
DD is spot on, thats just what I found.
- ChopperDoc
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
Basically they guy said what gunslinger noged. It took more time to aquire target with the dot because a pistol is not as stable as a rifle. Even with more time the accuracy was not better... so why spend the money. He did say that off camera he shot 60 yd targets and got more consistant hits with the RDS.
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- Frailer
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
FWIW that was the experience I had the one and only time I played with a RDS-equipped handgun. I was slower to acquire a sight picture at close targets, but it made it easier to aim more precisely at distant targets. I've come very close to having the slide of one of my Glocks milled for one, but I honestly can't justify the expense.ChopperDoc wrote:Basically they guy said what gunslinger noged. It took more time to aquire target with the dot because a pistol is not as stable as a rifle. Even with more time the accuracy was not better... so why spend the money. He did say that off camera he shot 60 yd targets and got more consistant hits with the RDS.
Last edited by Frailer on Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- RecoilSensitive
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Re: irons sights vs red dots on a handgun
On something like the fnx tactical with suppressor or a g20 for hunting or a .22 to shoot steel plates or whatever red dot great but practical use gun for defense a good set of night sights and a light is my pick.
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