Good Ideas for a .308?

[Harb]

Been looking at my Mosins that I haven't shot them in forever, mainly because I'd have to go out and buy more 7.62x54mmR ammunition. I would ideally like to get a .308, which is more practical for use in this country since it doesn't rely entirely on foreign-imported ammo. But I'm very unfamiliar with .308 weapons. What little I do know comes down to this: they're expensive and, if magazine fed, magazines are also expensive.

Any recommendations?

[WLJ]

Are you looking for a bolt action or Semi-auto?

If semi-auto most common are the
M1A
FAL
AR-10
BAR
FNAR
Saiga (AK style)
Vepr (another AK like design but higher quality IMHO)
RFB (bullpup)

If bolt, well there a million different ones to look at

[WLJ]

Well someone just put a M1A up for sale.

[Harb]

Are you looking for a bolt action or Semi-auto?

If semi-auto most common are the
M1A
FAL
AR-10
BAR
FNAR
Saiga (AK style)
Vepr (another AK like design but higher quality IMHO)
RFB (bullpup)

If bolt, well there a million different ones to look at

I'm open to all recommendations. I looked at the M1A for sale and think it's a good deal, but I'm not ready to buy at the moment.

The only experience I have with a .308 is a Remington 700 that was heavily modified. I've looked at the FAL and HK pattern rifles before but don't know anyone who actually owns them.

[Whootsinator]

.308 PMAGs are not prohibitively expensive. G&R has Colt LE-901's for sale. As an added bonus, any milspec AR15 upper receiver will function on it.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/co ... &key=LE901

[Whootsinator]

*sigh* I messed up and made a premature suggestion.

What do you want to do with it? Do you want a 'battle rifle' to run like an AR-15, a DMR that can be run like a battle rifle in a pinch, or will you primarily shoot long range (600m - 1000m)? Is hunting with it your main goal?

Or do you just want a .308 because you want a .308?

[ChopperDoc]

I have had the SCAR 17 for a little while now and I have to say that I would still choose that over a FNAR, your typical AR-10, or FAL for a semi-auto 308. It is light weight, low recoil (nice muzzle brake) and has lots of extras you would probably add to an AR-10 anyway.

I saw an LMT 308 that I liked (AR-10) but it was the same price as the SCAR 17. I think the SCAR beats it with features and weight.

LMT 308


SCAR 17S (FDE color - also comes in black)

[Dave1965]

I'm open to all recommendations. I looked at the M1A for sale and think it's a good deal, but I'm not ready to buy at the moment.

The only experience I have with a .308 is a Remington 700 that was heavily modified. I've looked at the FAL and HK pattern rifles before but don't know anyone who actually owns them.

I own all of those you mentioned. Depends on what you want from the rifle. The 700 is more of a precision shooting platform with scope setup and limited magazine. You can get the basic 700 aac-sd for under $600.

The FAL and the HK pattern rifles are more combat type rifles that can serve multi-purpose. Most commonly found these days are the Century made R1A1 rifles (I have one and now an original FAL) or the Century made CETME type HK rifle. Both Century rifles can be had for 600-700 dollars and both I have are good guns. Sure there are some that were not but just buy from someone you know or can trust if getting a used one and the newest ones all seem to be ok. The HK German aluminum magazines can be had for around $3 and up to $20 for the cetme steel magazines. FN FAL magazines can be had for $20 used or up to $30 used.

Compare those magazine prices to the SCAR-17 magazines that are hard to find less than $50 right now and they seem to be a bargain. AR10 magazines seem to run $20 to 40 depending on which flavor gun you have. The M1A mags run anywhere from $15 to $40 depending on which flavor/maker you buy.

[Harb]

I'm open to all recommendations. I looked at the M1A for sale and think it's a good deal, but I'm not ready to buy at the moment.

The only experience I have with a .308 is a Remington 700 that was heavily modified. I've looked at the FAL and HK pattern rifles before but don't know anyone who actually owns them.

I own all of those you mentioned. Depends on what you want from the rifle.

I like the idea of being able to precision shoot. If I ever expand to hunting other game besides whitetail deer I'll need a bigger gun than my 30-30. However, long range isn't practical in my AO. But, every time I pick up a battle rifle I think "I want this!" I've heard that PTR magazines will not fit the CETME rifle, or visa versa. It may have just been internet hogwash.

What are the most commonly encountered problems with the CETME?

[Dave1965]

The headspace and the sights being canted were the two things I have heard about the CETME. Both of them that I have had were nice guns in my opinion. I don't know about PTR mags but when you can get 10 new aluminum mags for around $30 dollars and those are german made, I don't worry about the new USA ones.

[WLJ]

Left out of CETME/G3 of my list.

[Harb]

Left out of CETME/G3 of my list.

The PTRs look really nice, but most of them are selling for $1500. Any idea on the cost of spare parts?

[WLJ]

Left out of CETME/G3 of my list.

The PTRs look really nice, but most of them are selling for $1500. Any idea on the cost of spare parts?

Depends on what model you want

$900
http://centerfiresystems.com/RIFLE-PTR91GI.aspx

$1,080
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/index.p ... gory_id=23

BTW The PTR is a copy of the G3 which is in turn a copy of the CETME.

[Harb]

I hate the fact that there's no rental range anywhere nearby...

[son of liberty]

The CETME is a turd, the whole HK91 pattern rifles are junk! The PTR Is a better turd then the CETME and not as pretty a turd as the 91 but all are big giant turds none the less. Honestly I feel its a waste of 308.

[Dave1965]

The CETME is a turd, the whole HK91 pattern rifles are junk! The PTR Is a better turd then the CETME and not as pretty a turd as the 91 but all are big giant turds none the less. Honestly I feel its a waste of 308.

LOL, were you spurned by a German one time or something?

[WLJ]

The CETME is a turd, the whole HK91 pattern rifles are junk! The PTR Is a better turd then the CETME and not as pretty a turd as the 91 but all are big giant turds none the less. Honestly I feel its a waste of 308.

LOL, were you spurned by a German one time or something?

LOL
The Germans copy a Spanish gun, the CETME, and call theirs the G3. Then the Americans copy the German gun and call their the PTR91.

So what we got in the PTR is a 1/3 Spanish 1/3 German 1/3 American mutt

[Dave1965]

The CETME is a turd, the whole HK91 pattern rifles are junk! The PTR Is a better turd then the CETME and not as pretty a turd as the 91 but all are big giant turds none the less. Honestly I feel its a waste of 308.

LOL, were you spurned by a German one time or something?

LOL
The Germans copy a Spanish gun, the CETME, and call theirs the G3. Then the Americans copy the German gun and call their the PTR91.

So what we got in the PTR is a 1/3 Spanish 1/3 German 1/3 American mutt

Which looks an awful lot like an STG44/MP44 to me.

[WLJ]

The CETME is a turd, the whole HK91 pattern rifles are junk! The PTR Is a better turd then the CETME and not as pretty a turd as the 91 but all are big giant turds none the less. Honestly I feel its a waste of 308.

LOL, were you spurned by a German one time or something?

LOL
The Germans copy a Spanish gun, the CETME, and call theirs the G3. Then the Americans copy the German gun and call their the PTR91.

So what we got in the PTR is a 1/3 Spanish 1/3 German 1/3 American mutt

Which looks an awful lot like an STG44/MP44 to me.

I would say most detachable magazine fed semi-auto rifles look sort of the same (minus bullpups of course), they pretty much have the same arrangement and for good reason. Humans no matter what country they're from still have 5 fingers on two arms connected to a chest and a head which has two eyes in pretty much the same place on all of them.

On a side note many consider the Fedorov Avtomat (Russia, 1915) the first "assault rifle" and at the very least it introduced the idea of the "assault rifle" into minds of many designers.

[Dave1965]

Yeah you could be right, those Spanish MG3's only VAGUELY look like a German MG42.....

[WLJ]

Note: Prices are off the top of my head.

1) M1A - $1200 - $2,500
Semi auto version of the M-14 which was itself a development of the semi-auto M1 Garand.
Easy to find, still being produced.
Considered by many to be the best looking of the bunch. Can be made accurate as heck but this usually results in producing a money pit like effect.

2) FAL - $800 - $3,000
Two main types the so called Metric" & Inch. Very limited new NIB production (In Brazil I think) , mostly old production with much of it being FrankenFALs. (mixed of old & new parts due to $%#! US import laws). They in fact competed in the same Army tests as the M-14 in the 50s. The M14 became the US service rifle, the FAL became the service rifle for just about everyone else in the Western world.
Many consider it superior to the M1A due to superior ergonomics, easier maintenance and they can be adjusted for a wide range of ammo but expressing this in public sometimes result in fist fights. Not as accurate though as the M1A can be in most cases, not all, but most. Biggest problem is Century is involved with some of them, see CETME notes. Most of the cheaper one are Century jobs, but other much higher quality companies are involved too, look for them. Just prepare to pay a lot more for those.

3) AR-10 - $1,000 - $3000
Really only the Armalite can be called an AR-10 but the others makes (DPMS, Rockriver, LMT) are grouped together with it with some variation between them (Mags, certain internal parts). The ARmalite-15 (AR-15) was a smaller 5.56 development of the original 7.62x51 ARmalite-10 (AR-10). The current AR-10 is in turn a development of the AR-15, kind of came full circle. If you like AR-15s you will probably like the AR-10 as they're pretty much the same just a little bigger and heaver. Still being produced. Straight out of the box (no mods) probably along with the FNAR, the most accurate of the bunch.

FNAR - $1,300-$3,000
The FNAR is basically a BAR in more modern "assault" style clothing.
IMHO heavy and a PITA to clean. Reportedly very accurate. Still being produced.

Saiga 308 $500-$800
One of the cheapest of the bunch. Basically an enlarged sporterized AK. Imported as a sporting rifle with the trigger move back, no ver hand grip, and hunting rifle looking stock. Still being produced (company is having issues though).

Saiga 308 (converted) $1,000 and up depending on how far they went.
Take a Saiga, move the trigger back to the original AK location, install AK style butt stock and ver grip.
It's an AK, enough said.

Vepr 308 $1,000 and up
Basically a higher quality Saiga. Can range from being very much like a converted Saiga to higher quality target rifles. Still being produced.

RFB $1,500 or so
Bullpup, uses FAL metric mags. 18in barrel with a total length of only just over 26 inches.
Handle one before you buy, not everyone like the bullpup layout. Still being produced. Newest design on the list, just been out for a few years now.

CETME $500-$800
The other cheap one along with the Saiga
The problem here is that most you'll find are imported by Century. Translation - Pick up two CETMEs from century, one will have shitty workmanship on the receiver and barrel. Questionable headspaceing and off center sights. The other will be a work of art. A lot of their products are like this. In short never buy unless you can inspect it first.
That out of way, heavy, controls seem to be in the wrong places in many cases. feels out of balance to me. As far as accuracy, well you should be able to hit pie plates at 100yrs, unless it's a century with FUBARed sights.

G3 - $2,000 and up
German (HK) version of the CETME, rare and hard to find in the US. More accurate (reportedly) than the CETME. If you can find one as long as someone hasn't FUBARed it, they're usually good quality. Still heavy and with weird ergonomics IMHO. And way over priced like most HK products as well.

PTR $800-$1,500
Basically an American made G3

SCAR-H (heavy) 7.62NATO $2,500 and up
Fairly new design from FNH also comes in a 5.56 version SCAR-L (light).
Don't really have an opinion right now, need to handle one first. But everything I've heard is good... except for the price.



tired of typing

[guncrank1]

Remington 700
FN-FAL

[WLJ]

Yeah you could be right, those Spanish MG3's only VAGUELY look like a German MG42.....

The Rheinmetall (German) MG3 was a 7.62x51 (7.62NATO) version of the MG42. The Spanish MG3 was a license built Rheinmetall MG3. Well I guess that why they look the same.

[Dave1965]

Left out the scar heavy for 2700-2800 since you put other big dollar guns in there.

[WLJ]

Left out the scar heavy for 2700-2800 since you put other big dollar guns in there.

Doh!