Home Defense: 12 Gauge or SKS?

[Ar-Rob]

I recommend 2 ar's for home defense. A top shelf one and bottom shelf one.
Use the top shelf to take care of business and give the cops the bottom shelf
Cause you won't get it back

[WLJ]

Only thing that sucks is trying to find the ammo! It sells out so quick.

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Mafia must be busy

[SNL]

22 is no joke

Its the new 9mm

wrists gettin limper

[Frailer]

I am of the *opinion*--since I'm not an expert in terminal ballistics, that's all it is--that we too often compare apples to oranges when comparing handguns, rifles, and shotguns, as they work very differently.

Handgun rounds deliver very little energy, so they work by essentially punching holes in vital parts of the anatomy. After shot placement, penetration is most important, followed by expansion. You want to put the hole in the right place, penetrate deep enough to hit something important, and make a big enough hole to get the job done. Ballistic gelatin will allow us to gauge these qualities fairly accurately.

Rifles and shotguns do their damage differently. In addition to punching holes they also do damage as the result of their significantly higher energy. Voodoo comes into play here, with talk of "temporary wound cavities," "hydrostatic shock," and other amorphous terms. Ballistic gel won't tell the whole story here, but fortunately people shoot a lot of animals with long guns, so we can draw some conclusions from the observations of hunters.

Unfortunately, few hunters shoot man-sized game at 15 feet...

Outside the house, I'll choose a rifle, all day long. Inside the house, I think the best choice for most people is a 20 gauge pump shotgun with--believe it or not--birdshot (#4 or so).

I avoid making the decision by keeping a handgun, a rifle, and a shotgun handy at all times.

[Wyldman]

Frailer is right. Inside the house, my preferred weapon is my Mossberg 500 16" barrel with high brass #4 shot. At indoor ranges, that stuff is vicious and will shred whatever it comes in contact with, without over penetrating. It's truly nasty without the massive overkill of a high powered rifle.

In a pinch, my USP .45 with 20 rd magazine will also serve quite nicely. Both weapons mount a 500 lumen light to make certain of the target, and is bright enough to dazzle without blinding me in the process. A few 1/2" holes to center mass is pretty effective.

I'm not saying a rifle isn't a good defense weapon, but there are alternatives to worrying about putting a round through a brick wall at a half a mile, or more. Anyone thinking that precision shot placement, in the dark, with mass amounts of adrenaline pumping through your system, and fear threatening to cause you to piss your pants is even a remote possibilty has been watching too many John Wayne movies.

[Marcus]

Frailer is right. Inside the house, my preferred weapon is my Mossberg 500 16" barrel with high brass #4 shot. At indoor ranges, that stuff is vicious and will shred whatever it comes in contact with, without over penetrating. It's truly nasty without the massive overkill of a high powered rifle.

In a pinch, my USP .45 with 20 rd magazine will also serve quite nicely. Both weapons mount a 500 lumen light to make certain of the target, and is bright enough to dazzle without blinding me in the process. A few 1/2" holes to center mass is pretty effective.

I'm not saying a rifle isn't a good defense weapon, but there are alternatives to worrying about putting a round through a brick wall at a half a mile, or more. Anyone thinking that precision shot placement, in the dark, with mass amounts of adrenaline pumping through your system, and fear threatening to cause you to piss your pants is even a remote possibilty has been watching too many John Wayne movies.

16"? Or 18.5"?;)

[Wyldman]

The short, shrouded barrel. Might be 18.5". Short enough to be reasonably handy in a hallway without bumping into things, like walls.

[SNL]

yall use #4 bird?

ive shot #4 buck before and wouldnt use that over standard 00

[Livewire]

I keep the 870 loaded with #2 and 00 in the shell carrier. With that being said I've seen what #4 shot does to a turkey at 30-40 yards. It's pretty devastating at that distance to a bird so I can only imagine what it would do to a person inside 7 yards distance.

[Frailer]

yall use #4 bird?

Yep.

I know many folks think this is the height of stupidity, and they are free to keep believing that.

[Toddstang]

yall use #4 bird?

Yep.

I know many folks think this is the height of stupidity, and they are free to keep believing that.

Will blow skin and muscle tissue clean off the skull at close range.

Shot at possum with #4 in the head within 6 feet. Made a mess.

[gaston_kalash]

yall use #4 bird?

Yep.

I know many folks think this is the height of stupidity, and they are free to keep believing that.

Will blow skin and muscle tissue clean off the skull at close range.

Shot at possum with #4 in the head within 6 feet. Made a mess.

I shot a possum with 00 buck one time and it didn't even stop then I shot it with glock 19 and it stopped dead in its tracks. Not sure what happened but I think it might have been on pcp lol.

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[BigZman95]

Don't I need to worry about spread with shot though? I have several dogs and a cat that I don't want to hit on accident.


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[jackalo626]

Don't I need to worry about spread with shot though? I have several dogs and a cat that I don't want to hit on accident.


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spread in a home length distance is very minor and we are talking inches. I can't quote the pattern but the Internet could get you stats fairly easy.

[BigZman95]

Don't I need to worry about spread with shot though? I have several dogs and a cat that I don't want to hit on accident.


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spread in a home length distance is very minor and we are talking inches. I can't quote the pattern but the Internet could get you stats fairly easy.

So you don't think it's a huge deal?


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[Toddstang]

Don't I need to worry about spread with shot though? I have several dogs and a cat that I don't want to hit on accident.


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spread in a home length distance is very minor and we are talking inches. I can't quote the pattern but the Internet could get you stats fairly easy.

So you don't think it's a huge deal?


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Dick Cheney's hunting buddy didn't think so.

[WLJ]

Don't I need to worry about spread with shot though? I have several dogs and a cat that I don't want to hit on accident.


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Just shine a laser pointer on him, let the cat take him out.

[SNL]

that issue is why they say know your target and whats behind it. any bullet sufficient for sd can pass through. miss % is pretty high when your on adrenaline as well. 2" of spread from across a room is the least of your concern.

[SNL]

2 rds of birdshot face
1 rd birdshot com
18" pistol grip no choke
pistol holes were whoever left the target, but shows an avg dudes accuracy at ~15 feet pretty well id say
Note: i was range blasting w/birdshells, reload 00 before going home.



[attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1402184245796.jpg[/attachment]

[jackalo626]

Don't I need to worry about spread with shot though? I have several dogs and a cat that I don't want to hit on accident.


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spread in a home length distance is very minor and we are talking inches. I can't quote the pattern but the Internet could get you stats fairly easy.

So you don't think it's a huge deal?


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look up the spread patterns and post them here. They are inches within a typical household distance.

[Frailer]

Don't I need to worry about spread with shot though? I have several dogs and a cat that I don't want to hit on accident.


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Just shine a laser pointer on him, let the cat take him out.

Brilliant!

[son of liberty]

I did not mean to start a Shotgun Vs 22LR debate, and the fruits of such a debate would be as sour as an AK vs AR debate.

I do want to comment of the primitive man theory , or the idea that when in a life or death situation (Most often a shooting), people some how devolve in to a cave man like state where they flail there arms and grunt loudly. While I admit that under the adrenalin dump ones gross motor skills may suffer , its hard for me to believe that one would loose there skill to aim there weapon , yet retain the skills to remove the safety , or pump the shotgun, or work the weapon light. I mean according to the Primitive man theory a sky diver would be unable to check his altitude or open his chute. Then to believe that while loosing the ability to put sights on target , one would retain some sort of ability to just pop off random rounds at a threat, and have a greater chance of hitting the threat with a shot gun due to this random shot placement. IMO the primitive man theory has a bit of merit when you apply it to and untrained individual , a trained skydiver can do flips and move himself all over while watching his altitude , and I would have to assume that same training applied to firearms would also allow the trained shooter a greater degree of comfort in such a situation as a shooting.

The issue relies solely on ballistics all the other stuff is moot.

Again , I may be John Wayne so YMMV

[SNL]

Id consider "trained shooter" an extremely small % of the population. Even among gun owners....id say most even at rest slow firing at paper shoot like the pistol hits on that skimask print above.